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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
Calling her movie The Red Pill was a bad move, for many it instantly robbed it of any credibility because most people associate it with pick up artist douchery, not mens rights.
Most people, i.e. you.
No, most people that have ever heard of them.
They've gained notoriety in the past for seriously discussing stuff like "Women want to be raped" or "The case for legalising rape".
From recollection, theres some cross over with the Alt Right but Im not sure how.
But in case you are of the belief that they are about Mens Rights and not Picking Up women, dont take my word for it, take theirs:
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."I'd wager most people have no idea what Red Pill may mean and that the film's title has sweet fa to do with the way it has been received by the usual loud and rabid minority in Australia.
Right and I guess if most people dont use the internet to look up stuff they dont know, they'll probably continue to think that way. Solid man, solid.
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
Calling her movie The Red Pill was a bad move, for many it instantly robbed it of any credibility because most people associate it with pick up artist douchery, not mens rights.
Most people, i.e. you.
No, most people that have ever heard of them.
They've gained notoriety in the past for seriously discussing stuff like "Women want to be raped" or "The case for legalising rape".
From recollection, theres some cross over with the Alt Right but Im not sure how.
But in case you are of the belief that they are about Mens Rights and not Picking Up women, dont take my word for it, take theirs:
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."I'd never heard of them so the name was pretty meaningless to me.
Cassie Jaye said she did ask them about the comments to do with rape, and said that a) those comments were taken out of context and were largely explainable and b) she chose not to include them in this movie as anything to do with rape is a massive rabbit hole that would require it's own movie.
I don't know the context so won't comment on them, but as with anything context is critical. And in my experience with SJWs/Feminists they absolutely love to take statements out of context to smear people they disagree with politically.
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
Calling her movie The Red Pill was a bad move, for many it instantly robbed it of any credibility because most people associate it with pick up artist douchery, not mens rights.
Most people, i.e. you.
No, most people that have ever heard of them.
They've gained notoriety in the past for seriously discussing stuff like "Women want to be raped" or "The case for legalising rape".
From recollection, theres some cross over with the Alt Right but Im not sure how.
But in case you are of the belief that they are about Mens Rights and not Picking Up women, dont take my word for it, take theirs:
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."I'd wager most people have no idea what Red Pill may mean and that the film's title has sweet fa to do with the way it has been received by the usual loud and rabid minority in Australia.
Right and I guess if most people dont use the internet to look up stuff they dont know, they'll probably continue to think that way. Solid man, solid.
What a bizarre argument. Weak bro weak.
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@No-Quarter said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
Calling her movie The Red Pill was a bad move, for many it instantly robbed it of any credibility because most people associate it with pick up artist douchery, not mens rights.
Most people, i.e. you.
No, most people that have ever heard of them.
They've gained notoriety in the past for seriously discussing stuff like "Women want to be raped" or "The case for legalising rape".
From recollection, theres some cross over with the Alt Right but Im not sure how.
But in case you are of the belief that they are about Mens Rights and not Picking Up women, dont take my word for it, take theirs:
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."I'd never heard of them so the name was pretty meaningless to me.
Cassie Jaye said she did ask them about the comments to do with rape, and said that a) those comments were taken out of context and were largely explainable and b) she chose not to include them in this movie as anything to do with rape is a massive rabbit hole that would require it's own movie.
I don't know the context so won't comment on them, but as with anything context is critical. And in my experience with SJWs/Feminists they absolutely love to take statements out of context to smear people they disagree with politically.
Check it out for yourself and see what you think. Ask women what they think.
I haven't watched the movie yet. Thing is, I totally agree that there are problems that are unique to men, I just argue the naming of the movie was a bad choice. It instantly aligns itself with the Alt Right and if one wants to be taken seriously, that's not a great start. -
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
Calling her movie The Red Pill was a bad move, for many it instantly robbed it of any credibility because most people associate it with pick up artist douchery, not mens rights.
Most people, i.e. you.
No, most people that have ever heard of them.
They've gained notoriety in the past for seriously discussing stuff like "Women want to be raped" or "The case for legalising rape".
From recollection, theres some cross over with the Alt Right but Im not sure how.
But in case you are of the belief that they are about Mens Rights and not Picking Up women, dont take my word for it, take theirs:
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."I'd wager most people have no idea what Red Pill may mean and that the film's title has sweet fa to do with the way it has been received by the usual loud and rabid minority in Australia.
Right and I guess if most people dont use the internet to look up stuff they dont know, they'll probably continue to think that way. Solid man, solid.
What a bizarre argument. Weak bro weak.
Its called sarcasm. Look it up after you've looked up TheRedPill.
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The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
Calling her movie The Red Pill was a bad move, for many it instantly robbed it of any credibility because most people associate it with pick up artist douchery, not mens rights.
Most people, i.e. you.
No, most people that have ever heard of them.
They've gained notoriety in the past for seriously discussing stuff like "Women want to be raped" or "The case for legalising rape".
From recollection, theres some cross over with the Alt Right but Im not sure how.
But in case you are of the belief that they are about Mens Rights and not Picking Up women, dont take my word for it, take theirs:
"The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men."I'd wager most people have no idea what Red Pill may mean and that the film's title has sweet fa to do with the way it has been received by the usual loud and rabid minority in Australia.
Right and I guess if most people dont use the internet to look up stuff they dont know, they'll probably continue to think that way. Solid man, solid.
What a bizarre argument. Weak bro weak.
Its called sarcasm. Look it up after you've looked up TheRedPill.
Isn't that the name of a movie?
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@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
I didn't make that claim so I'm not going to rebut your argument.
When I googled TheRedPill, I got 6 links concerning the insalubrious side of TRP, 2 links to the movie, 1 link to their reddit forum & 1 link to urban dictionary.
Also, I now know that it was created by a former Republican representative. Despite being his own creation, he tried to distance himself from initially so it seems its toxicity was not lost on him. He ended up resigning after his identity was made public.
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
I didn't make that claim so I'm not going to rebut your argument.
When I googled TheRedPill, I got 6 links concerning the insalubrious side of TRP, 2 links to the movie, 1 link to their reddit forum & 1 link to urban dictionary.
Also, I now know that it was created by a former Republican representative. Despite being his own creation, he tried to distance himself from initially so it seems its toxicity was not lost on him. He ended up resigning after his identity was made public.
You claimed that the name meant the film couldn't be taken seriously and that "most people" would connect it to some obscure term used by the alt-right. I respectfully disagree and am also unsure what this has to do with the discussion, which was principally about how this film has been received in Australia. Unless of course you do think that the "outcry" is because of the name and not the actual content of the film.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
I didn't make that claim so I'm not going to rebut your argument.
When I googled TheRedPill, I got 6 links concerning the insalubrious side of TRP, 2 links to the movie, 1 link to their reddit forum & 1 link to urban dictionary.
Also, I now know that it was created by a former Republican representative. Despite being his own creation, he tried to distance himself from initially so it seems its toxicity was not lost on him. He ended up resigning after his identity was made public.
You claimed that the name meant the film couldn't be taken seriously and that "most people" would connect it to some obscure term used by the alt-right. I respectfully disagree and am also unsure what this has to do with the discussion, which was principally about how this film has been received in Australia. Unless of course you do think that the "outcry" is because of the name and not the actual content of the film.
Cmon mate, you're strawmanning too. I didnt say it couldnt be taken seriously, I said it robbed it of credibility, not ALL credibility. Yes I think it was a factor however I did not make any claim that there would be zero controversy were it named something else.
BTW, TheRedPill is not an obscure Alt-Right term. TheRedPill started off as a pick up artist whoops I mean sexual strategy forum, its alleged at some point Alt-Right followers started to onboard TRP followers and apparently there is now a TheRedPillRight. TRP originally cited the Matrix as the origin of its name.
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
I didn't make that claim so I'm not going to rebut your argument.
When I googled TheRedPill, I got 6 links concerning the insalubrious side of TRP, 2 links to the movie, 1 link to their reddit forum & 1 link to urban dictionary.
Also, I now know that it was created by a former Republican representative. Despite being his own creation, he tried to distance himself from initially so it seems its toxicity was not lost on him. He ended up resigning after his identity was made public.
You claimed that the name meant the film couldn't be taken seriously and that "most people" would connect it to some obscure term used by the alt-right. I respectfully disagree and am also unsure what this has to do with the discussion, which was principally about how this film has been received in Australia. Unless of course you do think that the "outcry" is because of the name and not the actual content of the film.
Cmon mate, you're strawmanning too. I didnt say it couldnt be taken seriously, I said it robbed it of credibility, not ALL credibility. Yes I think it was a factor however I did not make any claim that there would be zero controversy were it named something else.
BTW, TheRedPill is not an obscure Alt-Right term. TheRedPill started off as a pick up artist whoops I mean sexual strategy forum, its alleged at some point Alt-Right followers started to onboard TRP followers and apparently there is now a TheRedPillRight. TRP originally cited the Matrix as the origin of its name.
What are you talking about? Most people have never heard of Alt-right, let alone the red pill and yet you claim using this name has had a detrimental effect on the film? That's just complete bollocks. This film is "controversial" because of the content not the bloody name.
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@phoenetia Well, speaking as one of those who have seen the film, the choice of name is alluded to by Jaye herself. And yes, it is about the whole Matrix red pill / blue pill thing.
I understand the argument that the name might reduce the credibility of the film. I'd counter it by asking amongst what group?
The answer might be partially found in the film itself, because one of the issues that comes through strongly is how close-minded the orthodox left are in the face of even the suggestion of men's rights or grievances. I think if we're honest the name of the film isn't going to make any difference to them; their minds are well and truly made up. Or at least that's the premise of the film.
Of course the many people she interviewed may not have been representative of the academic, political and media classes as a whole, maybe she just lucked out in that all the opposing voices she interviewed came across as the type of smug, condescending, and often aggressive piston wristed gibbons she hoped for in order to make a compelling film. Or maybe the men's rights people are right, and the smug piston wristed gibbons are indeed representative.
I said in the movie thread when I saw the film that some of the men's rights people in it are not the nicest of people if you bother to google them. However just because the messenger may be flawed doesn't mean the message is. And it was remarkable how many of the interviewees were completely dismissive of any of the arguments without actually ever having listened to them.
I'll be interested to see what you think when you've seen it. It's on Amazon Prime Video, iTunes Uk and US. Not iTunes NZ though, I don't know why that is.
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Why the heck is this film being associatedwith the alt right????
Every single thing the far left doesnt like nowdays seems to be linked to this fanciful 'alt right'. Neo cons used to the far left bogey man.... then neo liberals.... now it this alt right thing.... what next the neo alt right?
After seeing some of false information spread about people in the film, I am skeptical of any 'articles' or claims about them. I will judge them on what I hear them say, not what feminists say they said. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Gender Studies:
Why the heck is this film being associatedwith the alt right????
Every single thing the far left doesnt like nowdays seems to be linked to this fanciful 'alt right'. Neo cons used to the far left bogey man.... then neo liberals.... now it this alt right thing.... what next the neo alt right?
After seeing some of false information spread about people in the film, I am skeptical of any 'articles' or claims about them. I will judge them on what I hear them say, not what feminists say they said.One of the most depressing aspects was how far the feminists portrayed in the film have moved away from the important (at least in my opinion) work of the originals. To see Erin Pizzey tell her story was quite disturbing. To hear that a woman who dedicated her life and work to helping women - not by gassing about privilege, but by getting out there and starting the Refuge movement - regularly gets death threats now because she dared suggest that many of the women she deals with are equally capable of violence as men, is a bizarre betrayal of humanity.
And as for the piece of work "Big Red", what a disgrace she was. Dim and aggressive just for the fun of it, safe in the knowledge she'll probably get away with her behaviour where a man doing the same would rightly get called out as a bully and a thug. You'll know the one I mean @Baron-Silas-Greenback, she whose sole contribution to a reasonable debate was to stand 6 inches from the speakers face and shout "Shut the fuck up". This one:
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@JC said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia Well, speaking as one of those who have seen the film, the choice of name is alluded to by Jaye herself. And yes, it is about the whole Matrix red pill / blue pill thing.
I understand the argument that the name might reduce the credibility of the film. I'd counter it by asking amongst what group?
The answer might be partially found in the film itself, because one of the issues that comes through strongly is how close-minded the orthodox left are in the face of even the suggestion of men's rights or grievances. I think if we're honest the name of the film isn't going to make any difference to them; their minds are well and truly made up. Or at least that's the premise of the film.
Of course the many people she interviewed may not have been representative of the academic, political and media classes as a whole, maybe she just lucked out in that all the opposing voices she interviewed came across as the type of smug, condescending, and often aggressive piston wristed gibbons she hoped for in order to make a compelling film. Or maybe the men's rights people are right, and the smug piston wristed gibbons are indeed representative.
I said in the movie thread when I saw the film that some of the men's rights people in it are not the nicest of people if you bother to google them. However just because the messenger may be flawed doesn't mean the message is. And it was remarkable how many of the interviewees were completely dismissive of any of the arguments without actually ever having listened to them.
I'll be interested to see what you think when you've seen it. It's on Amazon Prime Video, iTunes Uk and US. Not iTunes NZ though, I don't know why that is.
By anyone who had previously heard of TheRedPill prior to the film or anyone who thinks "wtf is TheRedPill", googles it, and then wonders why the first page is littered with results regarding misogyny. Or perhaps they go to the TRP subreddit and wonder why its discussing "Sexual Strategy" - how does that play into Mens Rights?
The thing that grates is that the film covers some really important topics. That the film maker chose to follow TRP knowing they had a controversial history that pits them against their gendered opposites introduces an unnecessary conflict that contributes to the impeded penetration of the movies message. It'd be like doing a movie on the challenges facing Muslims and following al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya around.
I hope to watch it with the Mrs in the next week or so. We just started watching American Gods so thats getting our viewing time at the moment
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@Rembrandt said in Gender Studies:
The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular cultural symbols representing the choice between: Knowledge, freedom and the (sometimes painful) truth of reality (red pill) Falsehood, security and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)
Works for me.
So what is the alt-right then exactly? From what Ive read it covers anyone from Hitler to anyone who happens to even slightly disagree with something from the left.
See, names matter. Rather than alt-right, they should call themselves "Angry white man justice keyboard warriors" (again, borrowing their online vernacular). They see themselves as some kind of antithesis to the SJW of the left which has unwittingly exposed them to the same derision and ignominy.
Hey, does anyone here consider themselves alt-right?
I still can't believe that you think the name of this film has somehow impacted on how it has been received in Australia. You honestly think that there would be zero controversy if she'd simply called it "Men and women" or "Men have problems"?
BTW I did a Google search. In addition to the definition provided by the Dutch Master, there was also this from Urban Dictionary:
'Red pill' has become a popular phrase among cyberculture and signifies a free-thinking attitude, and a waking up from a "normal" life of sloth and ignorance. Red pills prefer the truth, no matter how gritty and painful it may be."
Seems like a pretty apt title to me, particularly as the filmmaker had to challenge her own biases and worldview.
I didn't make that claim so I'm not going to rebut your argument.
When I googled TheRedPill, I got 6 links concerning the insalubrious side of TRP, 2 links to the movie, 1 link to their reddit forum & 1 link to urban dictionary.
Also, I now know that it was created by a former Republican representative. Despite being his own creation, he tried to distance himself from initially so it seems its toxicity was not lost on him. He ended up resigning after his identity was made public.
You claimed that the name meant the film couldn't be taken seriously and that "most people" would connect it to some obscure term used by the alt-right. I respectfully disagree and am also unsure what this has to do with the discussion, which was principally about how this film has been received in Australia. Unless of course you do think that the "outcry" is because of the name and not the actual content of the film.
Cmon mate, you're strawmanning too. I didnt say it couldnt be taken seriously, I said it robbed it of credibility, not ALL credibility. Yes I think it was a factor however I did not make any claim that there would be zero controversy were it named something else.
BTW, TheRedPill is not an obscure Alt-Right term. TheRedPill started off as a pick up artist whoops I mean sexual strategy forum, its alleged at some point Alt-Right followers started to onboard TRP followers and apparently there is now a TheRedPillRight. TRP originally cited the Matrix as the origin of its name.
What are you talking about? Most people have never heard of Alt-right, let alone the red pill and yet you claim using this name has had a detrimental effect on the film? That's just complete bollocks. This film is "controversial" because of the content not the bloody name.
I never said the content wasnt controversial and I never said alt-right was widely known.
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@phoenetia said in Gender Studies:
@JC said in Gender Studies:
@phoenetia Well, speaking as one of those who have seen the film, the choice of name is alluded to by Jaye herself. And yes, it is about the whole Matrix red pill / blue pill thing.
I understand the argument that the name might reduce the credibility of the film. I'd counter it by asking amongst what group?
The answer might be partially found in the film itself, because one of the issues that comes through strongly is how close-minded the orthodox left are in the face of even the suggestion of men's rights or grievances. I think if we're honest the name of the film isn't going to make any difference to them; their minds are well and truly made up. Or at least that's the premise of the film.
Of course the many people she interviewed may not have been representative of the academic, political and media classes as a whole, maybe she just lucked out in that all the opposing voices she interviewed came across as the type of smug, condescending, and often aggressive piston wristed gibbons she hoped for in order to make a compelling film. Or maybe the men's rights people are right, and the smug piston wristed gibbons are indeed representative.
I said in the movie thread when I saw the film that some of the men's rights people in it are not the nicest of people if you bother to google them. However just because the messenger may be flawed doesn't mean the message is. And it was remarkable how many of the interviewees were completely dismissive of any of the arguments without actually ever having listened to them.
I'll be interested to see what you think when you've seen it. It's on Amazon Prime Video, iTunes Uk and US. Not iTunes NZ though, I don't know why that is.
By anyone who had previously heard of TheRedPill prior to the film or anyone who thinks "wtf is TheRedPill", googles it, and then wonders why the first page is littered with results regarding misogyny. Or perhaps they go to the TRP subreddit and wonder why its discussing "Sexual Strategy" - how does that play into Mens Rights?
The thing that grates is that the film covers some really important topics. That the film maker chose to follow TRP knowing they had a controversial history that pits them against their gendered opposites introduces an unnecessary conflict that contributes to the impeded penetration of the movies message. It'd be like doing a movie on the challenges facing Muslims and following al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya around.
I hope to watch it with the Mrs in the next week or so. We just started watching American Gods so thats getting our viewing time at the moment
Sorry how did the film maker follow TRP??
If you hadn't already admitted not watching the film, you just made it obvious. Dont comment on what is in the film until you have watched it. Because quite honestly your comments on the content of the film are laughable."Unnecessary conflict that contributes to the impeded penetration of the movies message"??? WTF???
How can you remotely assess that without seeing the film?? And how exactly does it grate you when you havent seen it??
Gender Studies