Hurricanes v B&I Lions
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Only one non-test match to be played, so I've tried to figure out what squad the coaches might go for, taking into account all players that aren't available:
1 Loni Uhila
2 Ricky Riccitelli
3 Jeff To'omaga-Allen
4 Sam Lousi
5 Mark Abbott
6 Reed Prinsep
7 Callum Gibbins
8 Brad Shields
9 Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi
10 Otere Black
11 Ben Lam
12 Vince Aso
13 Wes Goosen
14/15 Cory Jane & Nehe Milner-SkudderBench:
16 Leni Apisai
17 Chris Eves
18 Ben May
19 James Blackwell
20 Hugh Renton
21 Kylem O'Donnell
22 Tiaan Falcon
23 Jonah LoweInjured (as far as we know): Goodes, Fatialofa, Cridge, Akhi, Proctor (TJ Va'a?, Peter Umaga-Jensen)
Unavailable (unless released): Coles, Fifita, Beauden and Jordie Barrett, Perenara, Laumape, Julian and Ardie SaveaWith Laumape and Jordie with the ABs and Akhi injured, it's unclear who'll play at 12. I've gone for Aso, because he has played in that position for Auckland.
If Aso plays at 12, Goosen will probably play at 13.
If Ben Lam can play on the left wing (I can only remember him playing at 14), then I think he'll play in the 11 jersey. If not, it is likely to be Jonah Lowe on the left wing.
Not sure whether NMS is preferred at wing or fullback. That will decide where Jane plays.
There's not much depth at lock; there's only Blade Thompson left, able to play both at lock and loose forward, but I've gone for the players that have been picked more often this season. That's why I've picked Blackwell for the lock bench spot.
Little depth at 10, too, so it seems Falcon could go straight from the NZU20s to the Canes' bench, unless they go for another development player (assuming TJ Va'a is still out).Thoughts?
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Is there no chance that Laumape, JB and Fifita will be released? Would make a massive difference having them.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel I hope so, but I haven't read/heard anything about players being released, so I've listed a team without them. Hansen & co. might not want to risk them getting injured at this stage, but considering they released TKB and Rieko Ioane for the Māori ABs game, there's a chance it will happen. Fingers crossed! ...
.... although as a Magpies fan I'd like to see Jonah Lowe get another shot, too. He hardly got the ball in the Prov Baabaas game and it would be a great occasion for his Hurricanes debut.
With these players, this would probably change:
4
Sam LousiMark Abbott
5Mark AbbottVaea Fifita
19James BlackwellSam Lousi11
Ben LamWes Goosen
12Vince AsoNgani Laumape
13Wes GoosenVince Aso
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15Cory JaneJordie Barrett
23Jonah LoweCory Jane or Ben Lam -
Sam Lousi was very good lately and his presence could be a welcome add in terms of muscle up front. Abbott and Fifita are both very mobile locks and suit the SR perfectly but I'll take Lousi for the BIL game which will be tighter and slower.
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I'd start Jane and make him captain.
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@ACT-Crusader How many others are playing the Lions for the 2nd time (if Jane was picked)?
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@Toddy said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@ACT-Crusader How many others are playing the Lions for the 2nd time (if Jane was picked)?
I think the only other person that played during the 2005 tour was Kaino.
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Barring disaster, those in the squad have to be released now surely. Maybe even J Savea as well!
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
Barring disaster, those in the squad have to be released now surely. Maybe even J Savea as well!
Given a good result on Saturday, it would be hilarious if they were all released. TJP included.
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Tuesday game? Not a lot of Training time, would be fantastic to get another midweek win (especially for my TAB account)
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@Rembrandt said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
Tuesday game? Not a lot of Training time, would be fantastic to get another midweek win (especially for my TAB account)
Been together all year. They should know the calls.
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hahaha oh that's gold. I hope they don't get a fake guy in teaching them
preview of lineouts during hurricanes game:
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@mariner4life assume you didn't read it, it says they use hand signals already....
"I'm not sure how much of a place there is for that in the game. But if it is a game tactic it won't matter for us because we do our lineouts with hand signals anyway, so the verbal cues don't mean anything."
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@taniwharugby haha read the article? are you nuts?
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@mariner4life headlines give enough of a gist aye
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I had a yarn with Eves at the gym last night. He wasn't 100% sure who would be available for the Canes out of the guys in the AB squad. No doubt they get told to keep mum but...
He said the Lions were super physical around ruck and maul time - more so than they usually get in super rugby. Also said they'd trained in awesome weather all week and it was a pity the weather was shite on the night. Biggest problem was not being able to hold possession, esp from kicks.
He agreed that the selections could have changed to accommodate the weather - when it might have made more sense to have Otere start, McKenzie at fullback and Lowe on the wing. But no hints about any AB mandate for McKenzie at 1st five though.
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@Paekakboyz I read an article on the stuff website yesterday, in which they said Boyd will hear on Sunday whether any players will be released by the ABs or not.
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@Paekakboyz said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
I had a yarn with Eves at the gym last night. He wasn't 100% sure who would be available for the Canes out of the guys in the AB squad. No doubt they get told to keep mum but...
He said the Lions were super physical around ruck and maul time - more so than they usually get in super rugby. Also said they'd trained in awesome weather all week and it was a pity the weather was shite on the night. Biggest problem was not being able to hold possession, esp from kicks.
He agreed that the selections could have changed to accommodate the weather - when it might have made more sense to have Otere start, McKenzie at fullback and Lowe on the wing. But no hints about any AB mandate for McKenzie at 1st five though.
Because I reckon it's a beat up. Forum and media talk saying DMac has to "add to his bow" to be a bench option, to follow the path that Beauden set, was not coming from the AB camp that I can recall.
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@ACT-Crusader yeah I figured it was more likely that Cooper is seeing how DMac goes at 10. Not that the Chiefs will be expecting to run into the Lions next season... well not these Lions at least!
Hansen may pick and chose when he shares info but I think he's pretty transparent, and approaches requests to super coaches in the right way. ie a request, not an order.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Paekakboyz said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
I had a yarn with Eves at the gym last night. He wasn't 100% sure who would be available for the Canes out of the guys in the AB squad. No doubt they get told to keep mum but...
He said the Lions were super physical around ruck and maul time - more so than they usually get in super rugby. Also said they'd trained in awesome weather all week and it was a pity the weather was shite on the night. Biggest problem was not being able to hold possession, esp from kicks.
He agreed that the selections could have changed to accommodate the weather - when it might have made more sense to have Otere start, McKenzie at fullback and Lowe on the wing. But no hints about any AB mandate for McKenzie at 1st five though.
Because I reckon it's a beat up. Forum and media talk saying DMac has to "add to his bow" to be a bench option, to follow the path that Beauden set, was not coming from the AB camp that I can recall.
According to this article, this is what the AB coaches said about it:
"Damian was definitely unlucky," added assistant coach, and attack guru, Ian Foster. "He has played really well, and I guess there will be a bit of debate about Damian v Jordie. You've got two really exciting young players, who are quite different (McKenzie a compact 1.75m and 80kg; Barrett a towering 1.95m and 96kg). "Damian is an outstanding player. He probably has got a slightly higher error-rate in some aspects but he does some brilliant things and I know he'll be back." That is likely to be sooner rather than later in All Black terms, with experienced first five-eighths Aaron Cruden due to depart after the Lions tour to take up a contract with Montpellier in France. That could open the door for talented Crusaders pivot Richie Mo'unga, or it could herald an immediate return for McKenzie to eventually fill a first five/fullback supersub role, a la Beauden Barrett so successfully through to the 2015 World Cup. The All Blacks selectors know enough about McKenzie's capabilities at fullback, based on back-to-back standout seasons of Super Rugby and his time in the national squad through 2016. But it's as a first five-eighth they need to see more from McKenzie, before anointing him as the 2.0 version of Barrett the supersub. "We're really interested in seeing him spend a bit of time at 10," added Foster. "I would imagine things do change for him at the Chiefs without Aaron there. But until we've had sufficient time to see him there it's hard to go into the test arena with someone at 10 who hasn't really played a lot there. "And as a specialist 15 we really feel we've got some good options there already." McKenzie is the heir apparent to Cruden at 10 with the Chiefs, and time in the saddle there will only help his cause as the ideal All Blacks bench man to cover 10 and 15. Fox said it was the logical progression for the talented youngster. "Damian says he wants to be a 10 and we see a great skillset at 10. But it's hard to pick him when he's not playing there. If you think about Beauden as a supersub on the bench, we're not saying that's where we see Damian's future, but if you look at that mould he could be that person. "Then he could ultimately become good enough to demand a starting position, which Beauden got to. But we need a lot more evidence. It would be a tough ask for him to do a 10/15 bench role at test level now without some time in the saddle at 10." -
Even in those statements I don't see them really pushing the agenda, more responding to queries. Obviously DMac has thought about and expressed his view to Fox that he wants to play more 10 so he can be more versatile. Given he has already been in the squad and hasn't had the opportunities he probably needs to do something different.
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I reckon Cooper just wanted to get his best players on the field and this was the solution in the backline.
DMac had never played fullback until the NZ U20s so sees himself primarily as a 1st 5.
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@Stargazer That's good for the Canes, probably not good for those players AB test chances though I guess. I thought Laumape might have been in line for a bench spot, and the drums are beating on the fern for J Barrett.
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Hurricanes team to play the Lions:
1 Ben May
2 Ricky Riccitelli
3 Jeff To'omaga-Allen
4 Mark Abbott
5 Sam Lousi
6 Vaea Fifita
7 Callum Gibbins
8 Brad Shields (c)
9 Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi
10 Otere Black
11 Julian Savea
12 Ngani Laumape
13 Vince Aso
14 Nehe Milner-Skudder
15 Jordie BarrettReserves:
16 Leni Apisai
17 Chris Eves
18 Mike Kainga
19 James Blackwell
20 Reed Prinsep
21 Kemara Hauiti-Parapara
22 Wes Goosen
23 Cory JaneGoosen at 22 is a bit odd as he isn't a 10. Will Black go the full eighty minutes, or will they move Jordie to ten if Black gets injured?
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@Stargazer said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
That's a good team - a lot better than what the Chiefs put out.
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Where is Kylem O'Donnell, one of the three contracted halfbacks on the Hurricanes roster?
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@hydro11 said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Stargazer said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
That's a good team - a lot better than what the Chiefs put out.
About to say the same thing.
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Interesting that both Laumape and Jordie especially have been released to play this game. I thought at least one of them would be figuring in (at least) the bench selection for the ABs.
I see Hansen is saying that all of them are in contention for the test team, but you'd tend to think they're not at the forefront of his mind.
Might point that Hansen doesn't think this test is any place for rookies and that they're going to leave Beauden at fullback. Given the strength of the Lions kicking game, I think this would be my preferred option. Which would allow Sopoaga to take one bench spot and maybe Naholo the other? Not much midfield cover that way - Rieko, I suppose.
Or have they discovered in camp that Jack Goodhue is simply too good to be ignored? That would get someone's wheels spinning!
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Lions set to lose their last 4 games on tour then?
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@Virgil That tight five will probably need to be better than I think it is.
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@Chris-B. said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Virgil That tight five will probably need to be better than I think it is.
This midweek side is a completely different beast to the one that took apart the Maori and suffocated the Crusaders
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@Virgil Yeah - but, still full of test players and good enough to deal to the Chiefs.
Only a handful of players in that Canes side with test caps - most of them belonging to Jules and Cory.
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Bloody hell. Strong backline that! Forwards are a bit classic canes journeymanish though.
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@Chris-B. said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Virgil Yeah - but, still full of test players and good enough to deal to the Chiefs.
Only a handful of players in that Canes side with test caps - most of them belonging to Jules and Cory.
Still, that's a waaaaaaaaaay stronger side than what the Chiefs put out, closer to full Super strength. Canes should take this one.
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@Nepia said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Hurricanes v B&I Lions:
@Virgil Yeah - but, still full of test players and good enough to deal to the Chiefs.
Only a handful of players in that Canes side with test caps - most of them belonging to Jules and Cory.
Still, that's a waaaaaaaaaay stronger side than what the Chiefs put out, closer to full Super strength. Canes should take this one.
I'd say so. Quite a few of the guys that people had pencilled into the Lions test side ( North, Henshaw ) would need massive games to change Wozzas mind one would imagine.
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Yes!!!!! This game should be a contest now. Very interested to see how Laumape and Barrett go.
Thought Jordie would be a chance for the 2nd test, especially with his aerial ability and the fact he can cover 12. But I'm not complaining.
Hope the pack get their shit together.
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No excuses for the Canes as only BB, TJP and Ardie are missing. I am ignoring Coles as a longterm absentee.
The Chiefs were really weakened by having no ABs released and the Maori game only 3 days earlier.
