All Blacks Player of the Season
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@hydro11 nice, I started doing a tally the other day and then I stopped...
Surprising Big Sam is so low given his partner in crime is still ahead and he missed games.
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@taniwharugby Whitelock is underrated, on the fern and by the media. I think that also applies to Laulala, btw.
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It would be cool if I could upload my spreadsheet but I can't work out how. Personally I think this is the best way to show who the best player was. It's a pretty thorough system. Once you get down to tenth place it starts to get a bit sketchy. D Mac was motm in the away games against South Africa and Argentina - only other players with multiple motm awards were Cane and Reiko. However, D Mac had some bad games in there too. Same deal with SBW.
Whitelock got votes in every game he played except the Samoan test. He got four of his highest vote totals in the five games he played without Retallick.
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@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@taniwharugby Whitelock is underrated, on the fern and by the media. I think that also applies to Laulala, btw.
Laulala was next on the list, FTR. I think I have lost my spreadsheets from past seasons but I don't remember actually having a prop in the top ten before.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
This comes up all the time and it's bullshit, and we call it as bullshit each time. Nobody underrates Whitelock, it's just that BBBR is a little bit better.
Cane won this easy, although BBBR might have taken it out if he played out the season.
Interesting that these 4 are on the list:
Read 141
A. Smith 126
SBW 98
D Mac 92Two of them are much maligned on here and two of them didn't have great seasons by their own high standards.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
It's not so much what people say on the fern; it's more the fact that he's often not mentioned at all when reviewing a game. I think it also becomes clear from the votes in many games. If he wasn't underrated, he'd have had more votes.
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@nepia see I'd say there is nothing between the 2, if anything, I'd have SW shading BBBR.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@nepia see I'd say there is nothing between the 2, if anything, I'd have SW shading BBBR.
Well you'd be wrong, and I'm now adding BBBR to the underrated players list!
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@hydro11 said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
As voted by you:
Cane 277
R. Ioane 206
Retallick 169
Whitelock 142
Read 141
A. Smith 126
SBW 98
D Mac 92
Hames 76
B. Barrett 75I would have had Moody in there...if not for injury. Can't believe he doesn't figure on that list!
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@stargazer said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
It's not so much what people say on the fern; it's more the fact that he's often not mentioned at all when reviewing a game. I think it also becomes clear from the votes in many games. If he wasn't underrated, he'd have had more votes.
That's fucking stupid. And pretty needy. Praise him or you hate him. Jesus.
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@nepia well fortunately I dont envisage a time (not least for a couple of seasons) where you would need to choose which of BBBR or Whitelock to put in your team.
Individually they are outstanding, but what is clear, is that as a combo, they are outstandinger!
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@nepia well fortunately I dont envisage a time (not least for a couple of seasons) where you would need to choose which of BBBR or Whitelock to put in your team.
Individually they are outstanding, but what is clear, is that as a combo, they are outstandinger!
Actually, it would be awesome if there was a time when we had to decide which one to pick - that means that Superman would be our other lock, nah scratch that as Hack Snyder's ruined him, so um a 6 ft 7 version of Michael Jones is our other lock.
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Player vs Samoa vs Lions 1 vs Lions 2 Lions 3 Aus 1 Aus 2 Arg 1 RSA 1 Arg 2 RSA 2 Aus 3 Barbarians France Scotland Wales Total 1 2 3
Cane 11 35 39 15 8 5 35 7 32 2 29 6 53 277 3 2 2
R. Ioane 6 13 42 38 2 8 4 12 32 49 206 3 1
Retallick 28 60 26 10 18 7 4 16 169 1 2
Whitelock 7 9 14 4 9 12 19 7 23 22 16 142 2 1
Read 49 3 12 5 9 10 4 6 9 34 141 1 1
A. Smith 13 7 16 23 10 31 7 4 2 8 4 1 126 1 2
SBW 2 7 7 4 1 1 4 1 29 2 27 13 98 2
McKenzie 6 1 2 45 30 1 1 3 3 92 2
Hames 22 8 3 12 30 1 76 2
B. Barrett 19 3 2 4 1 16 1 12 6 5 6 75 2
Laulala 36 4 0 15 7 5 4 71 1
Naholo 2 6 4 24 22 12 70 1 1
Crotty 41 1 2 17 2 5 1 69 1 1
Moody 1 1 7 3 7 11 38 68 1
Fifita 1 46 1 5 53 1
Squire 27 6 4 11 3 1 1 53 1
ALB 33 5 2 3 5 48 1
Romano 1 19 17 7 44 2
Dagg 1 31 1 6 2 41
J. Barrett 34 34 1
Laumape 2 11 18 31 1
Taylor 1 11 1 1 1 9 3 27 1
S. Barrett 1 1 1 2 7 6 1 19
Todd 6 7 3 3 19
Sopoaga 15 2 17 1
Coles 1 2 5 2 4 1 15
A. Savea 6 3 1 1 4 15
Kaino 2 3 1 8 14
Perenara 1 1 1 10 1 14
O. Franks 1 2 5 8
Crockett 1 1 6 8
Milner-Skudder 1 2 5 8
Havili 2 3 5
Tu'ungafasi 4 1 5
B. Smith 2 1 3
TKB 1 2 3
Cruden 1 1 2
Tamanivalu 2 2
Duffie 2 2
Tuipulotu 1 1 2
J. Savea 1 1
Aumua 1 1
Perry 1 1
JTA 1 1
L. Whitelock 1 1
Harris 0
Faumuina 0
Fekitoa 0
Havili 0 -
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@hydro11 can you change the colour of the cell where they played and got 0...by the looks A Smith was the only one to get votes in every game, Cane played one game less than 40 and got no votes.
edit - actually A Smith got nothing v Samoa
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@taniwharugby @hydro11 Or maybe put in a 0?
At any rate, top effort Hydro
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
It's not so much what people say on the fern; it's more the fact that he's often not mentioned at all when reviewing a game. I think it also becomes clear from the votes in many games. If he wasn't underrated, he'd have had more votes.
That's fucking stupid. And pretty needy. Praise him or you hate him. Jesus.
Underrated doesn't mean hated...
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@bones said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
It's not so much what people say on the fern; it's more the fact that he's often not mentioned at all when reviewing a game. I think it also becomes clear from the votes in many games. If he wasn't underrated, he'd have had more votes.
That's fucking stupid. And pretty needy. Praise him or you hate him. Jesus.
Underrated doesn't mean hated...
Not constantly sucking him off doesn't mean underrated
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Oh and sterling work @hydro11 nice
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@bones said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
It's not so much what people say on the fern; it's more the fact that he's often not mentioned at all when reviewing a game. I think it also becomes clear from the votes in many games. If he wasn't underrated, he'd have had more votes.
That's fucking stupid. And pretty needy. Praise him or you hate him. Jesus.
Underrated doesn't mean hated...
Not constantly sucking him off doesn't mean underrated
I think you'll find in this case that's exactly what it means.
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@bones said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@bones said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@stargazer who on here underrates Whitelock? Point out the heretics so that we may burn them
I am already sure he and BBBR are, by far and away the two best AB locks i have seen play. And up there with the best of the modern era. We're blessed to have them both at the same time.
It's not so much what people say on the fern; it's more the fact that he's often not mentioned at all when reviewing a game. I think it also becomes clear from the votes in many games. If he wasn't underrated, he'd have had more votes.
That's fucking stupid. And pretty needy. Praise him or you hate him. Jesus.
Underrated doesn't mean hated...
Not constantly sucking him off doesn't mean underrated
I think you'll find in this case that's exactly what it means.
How?
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@mariner4life he should be constantly sucked off.
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@bones i can go along with that i guess.
He's a fucking mile from under rated though
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@nepia said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
Two of them are much maligned on here and two of them didn't have great seasons by their own high standards.
Consistency is one of the main criticisms of SBW and McKenzie and hydros table kind of points to that.
McKenzie polled more than 6 votes only twice, including 7 total votes on the EOYT. However those two games he was MoTM. Feast or famine. Less pronounced, but similar thing with SBW including 7 votes I can only assume were sarcastic in the 2nd Lions test.
Two pretty interesting things that I had not considered until look at the table.
Coles was significantly reduced upon his return - he was a perennial top 3 candidate when fit and firing - most votes were 4 this year.
Most thought Barrett's World Player of the Year was a bit of a stretch - but that just shows how much. Possibly the strangest winner of an award with a history of strange winners.
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@mariner4life I'd actually say he's often overlooked, especially if everyone's crush retallick is playing.
Edit: I mean overlooked instead of Underrated.
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@bones said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life I'd actually say he's often overlooked, especially if everyone's crush retallick is playing.
that's the issue though isn't it - if Retallick shines, it's hard to pick two locks in the MOTM voting when there are usually major contributions elsewhere. You see how he gets recognised when Retallick isn't there.
Whitelock's steal against the Saffer lineout in 2015 was one of the moments of the semi. What a player.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@bones said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
@mariner4life I'd actually say he's often overlooked, especially if everyone's crush retallick is playing.
Whitelock's steal against the Saffer lineout in 2015 was one of the moments of the
semiRWC. What a player.FIFY
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For me Sam Whitelock is a world class lock.
But Brodie Retallick has a physical presence on the field that is a whole step up.
I would swap Whitelock out for Etzebeth or a couple of the Lions locks and think it was more or less evens. No way with Retallick.
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@rotated said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
Most thought Barrett's World Player of the Year was a bit of a stretch - but that just shows how much. Possibly the strangest winner of an award with a history of strange winners.
Maybe we need to provide this table to the judges prior to voting, it would me the most accurate measure available.
BB stats look even worse when you think he started 13 games.
Looking at averages for games started Cane had an average of 24.54, BBR 21.12, Ioane 18.72 Whitelock 11.83, SBW 8.90, BB 5.76
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Good stuff Hydro. Was it the same number of overall votes each time or were there minor/major deviations?
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
For me Sam Whitelock is a world class lock.
But Brodie Retallick has a physical presence on the field that is a whole step up.
I would swap Whitelock out for Etzebeth or a couple of the Lions locks and think it was more or less evens. No way with Retallick.
They each have different strengths. BBBR is more a power lock, Whitelock better aerially. Brodie great TH scrummager, Sam excellent LH. They are superb complements for each other. Combo best AB one in 46 years of watching.
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Ian Jones and Gary Whetton perhaps. We just didn't know it at the time because it was short lived.
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
Ian Jones and Gary Whetton perhaps. We just didn't know it at the time because it was short lived.
Gary Whetton was well below his best when Ian Jones came along. He was a disgrace in the 91 World Cup.
Jones and Brooke a far better combo
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks Player of the Season:
For me Sam Whitelock is a world class lock.
But Brodie Retallick has a physical presence on the field that is a whole step up.
I would swap Whitelock out for Etzebeth or a couple of the Lions locks and think it was more or less evens. No way with Retallick.
I wouldn't swap either for anyone.
