Crusaders 2020



  • Really unhelpful in terms of blindside flanker, and particularly when it comes to height. Where's Ethan Roots?? He should now come into the picture, with Tom Sanders.

    As for fullback? I guess we'll just have to make do with Will Jordan 🙂 The worst thing about Havili'i being out is he was also 10 cover so now we'll have to use the midget or a green Fergus Burke.



  • Injury update:

     Ennor sustained the [toe] injury against the Blues before the team’s bye, when someone trod on his foot in the 26-15 win.
    
    A couple of days after it was confirmed vice-captain David Havili (thumb) was done for the season, the good news is Ennor could be back next week against the Chiefs.
    
     ‘’It’s taken probably a week longer than we thought it would take to recover...the plan is next week all going well, but maybe a couple of weeks,’’ Crusaders coach Scott Robertson said.
    
    ‘’He just got landed on. It was hard for him to walk for the first week but it’s freeing up quite a bit now and his return to run stuff has been really good. He’s got all the imaging and stuff, it’s a feel thing, it’s getting better every day.’’
    
     Unlike Cullen Grace, who required surgery to repair his broken thumb (Bennett’s fracture), Robertson confirmed Havili would not go under the knife but would still need between six and eight weeks to mend.
    
    That’s nothing compared to his Tasman teammate Ethan Blackadder, who had knee surgery on Monday night and will miss the coming Mitre 10 Cup. Robertson expects him back for Super Rugby next season.
    

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300063943/super-rugby-crusaders-centre-braydon-ennor-to-miss-hurricanes-blockbuster



  • @shark said in Crusaders 2020:

    Really unhelpful in terms of blindside flanker, and particularly when it comes to height. Where's Ethan Roots?? He should now come into the picture, with Tom Sanders.

    As for fullback? I guess we'll just have to make do with Will Jordan 🙂 The worst thing about Havili'i being out is he was also 10 cover so now we'll have to use the midget or a green Fergus Burke.

    I was also hoping to see Razor give the Havili/Goodhue midfield a go with a Jordan, Reece, Bridge back 3.



  • Jesus, there is no midfield cover in our backline this week. Reece must be it. Shivers. Paea playing centre. Cameron on the bench and Reece covering midfield. Yikes.



  • Also no height in the loose forwards inc the bench. Luckily we're playing the Hurricanes.



  • @shark We could see Cameron or Mo’unga go to 2nd 5



  • @ACT-Crusader Fuck me that would be entertaining to watch haha



  • @ACT-Crusader From the article with the injury updates:

    In Havili’s absence, wings Sevu Reece and George Bridge will provide midfield cover ...
    


  • Can I claim to have half-pie predicted last night's result? 😝 I certainly had cause for concern re being a little under-manned relative to the top line up.



  • @shark said in Crusaders 2020:

    Also no height in the loose forwards inc the bench. Luckily we're playing the Hurricanes.

    Haha



  • @Machpants it’s still a fair point and was not meant as a slight to the Canes. Canes for a while haven’t had a lot of size in their locks or loose forwards.



  • It's a fair slight, we've got relative dwarfs for locks. And some who are short, and useless



  • The group now includes Tasman players – flanker Jacob Norris and wing Tima Fainga'anuku – who have joined the squad as injury replacements for Ethan Blackadder (knee) and David Havili (thumb).

    It remains unclear if centre Braydon Ennor will be over his foot injury in time for Saturday’s game, although Goodman said he was increasing his running load..

    No 8 Whetukamokamo Douglas is also in a race against time to be declared fit to play the Chiefs, having sprained his MCL in the second half of the game last weekend, Goodman confirmed..







  • “When I came off contract at the end of the last season, I had a few other teams who came calling and I had really a tough decision to make around what I wanted to do in the future,” said Jordan.

    “I’d had a few opportunities with the Crusaders but I knew game time would still be pretty hard to come by with the likes of George, Dave and Sevu, those guys in the outside backs.

    “It was definitely something I considered, heading to the Landers or the Blues. I did have a chat with Rangi [Blues head coach Leon MacDonald] when I was off-contract last year. He was a big reason for me heading up to Tasman as well, obviously with him having a played fullback at a very high level for both the Crusaders and the All Blacks. He’s a great coach and you can see he’s doing great things for the Blues now. Full credit to him for he’s done for their culture and their team.

    “Both are great teams with great cultures, but I think at the end of the day the opportunity to keep playing for my hometown province, a team that’s had a good track record of producing All Blacks and developing players was something that was too tough to turn down.”

    While the Highlanders were believed to be the side closest to tearing Jordan away from his home franchise, it wasn’t to be. Instead, he signed a new three-year deal with the Crusaders mid-way through last year..



  • Bower is NZ born and uncapped, yet I've never heard him discussion for higher honours. Is he lacking in any area? Or just too untested?



  • @mofitzy_ said in Crusaders 2020:

    Bower is NZ born and uncapped, yet I've never heard him discussion for higher honours. Is he lacking in any area? Or just too untested?

    He's from Taita, nuff said. He's getting bloody good for such a late bloomer eh! Came outta nowhere.



  • Bower came in as a replacement last year I think and made an impression but I don't think he's played a lot since has he?







  • @Tim wow "All-conquering coach Scott Robertson is likely to re-sign with New Zealand Rugby and the Crusaders rather than move offshore, the Herald can reveal."

    Big call, he's probably confident Foster will be out in two years. Reasonable assumption from previous head coach performance



  • @Machpants I don't think that staying in his comfort zone and avoiding international experience will do much for his chances.



  • @Machpants I think you're reading it wrong. According to the article, they think Robertson will re-sign for two more years (until the end of 2023). So if that's true, he might hope that Foster quits after the 2023 RWC, not in two years. And, of course, that's assuming that taking over the ABs gig is the main reason for his decision (which may not be the case).

     It is understood that he is looking at an additional two years with the red and blacks which would take him to the end of 2023, a World Cup year, after which the rugby landscape – both here and overseas – may look very different, as might the world in general.
    


  • @Tim said in Crusaders 2020:

    @Machpants I don't think that staying in his comfort zone and avoiding international experience will do much for his chances.

    If thats true Gatland must be next in line 😲



  • @Tim said in Crusaders 2020:

    @Machpants I don't think that staying in his comfort zone and avoiding international experience will do much for his chances.

    I doubt he's making a decision to re-sign (for now) to stay in his comfort zone or to avoid international experience. He may, for example, consider it wiser to look for a head coaching gig (in NZ or overseas) that starts after the next RWC, instead of mid-way through a RWC cycle.



  • @Tim said in Crusaders 2020:

    @Machpants I don't think that staying in his comfort zone and avoiding international experience will do much for his chances.

    Razor played and coached in Ireland, France and Japan between 2003 and 2007. In his mind, he's done his OE. Not sure a spell coaching Glasgow or Italy or Georgia would add much.

    None of the big international jobs are likely to be available until after 2023 RWC, as Foster's on a two year contract the ABs job is the most likely to. If it does, he's the favourite.



  • @sparky Yeah - people will use "hasn't coached overseas" as a stick to beat Razor with, but it's not really true and I'm not sure it's really essential, either.

    Henry's experience of coaching Wales didn't help him win in 2007 and Hansen's experience of coaching Wales (15 years earlier) didn't help him win in 2019 . However, both benefited from coaching a very good ABs side through 2008-2014 (or in fact 2004 onwards...).

    In fact, Hansen's experience in coaching Wales was dire - he never beat a tier 1 team and even he pointed out he had both the world's best and worst international coaching records. I guess his time in Wales taught him humility.

    In many ways, I'd rather Razor didn't take his methodologies abroad to teach the NH how he does it. I reckon they'd get much more out of it than he would.



  • Weird people are finding a way to down play Robertson's decision to stay in NZ when at the same time we are lamenting the knowledge we are losing overseas. I am bloody stoked he's staying on longer, he seems to be a damn good coach and fucked if I want the likes of England getting their mits on him.



  • @Chris-B Razor's already coached the UK Barbarians a couple of times.



  • @Chris-B said in Crusaders 2020:

    Henry's experience of coaching Wales didn't help him win in 2007

    Lions and Wales.

    03 to pre RWC we lost 5 times in 4 years, 3xSA and 2xAus; 38/43 games for nearly 90% winning record. The four years before we won 29/38 games.

    Henry and Hansen rebuilt a side wrecked by John Mitchell. They selected players from nowhere (Smith stands out for me), and were very very dominant at international level until a certain quarterfinal. Remember the French games in 04 - Walrus was convinced we were going to be spanked by a good French side, but we smoked them all over the paddock.

    The thing is that coaching Super and coaching Tests are completely different. The time you have with the players, conditioning, the quality, the motivation, the competition, the style of game are all very different. It's like arguing that a dominant Mitre10 coach should be an AB Coach.

    Robertson is a very good coach, but I think Sir Graham had a point- he would benefit from exposure to the international game overseas. Still, ultimately that's up to the NZRU who can't organise a pissup with Australia at the moment.

    http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/stats/index.html?class=1;result=2;spanmax1=1+sep+2007;spanmin1=1+jan+2004;spanval1=span;team=8;template=results;type=team;view=results



  • @nzzp Going overseas again might help Razor become a bit better AB coach - but, on the other hand it might not. Ideally, you want guys to be coaching the ABs at their peak - not spending their peak coaching some NH club (or even country).

    I'm of the opinion that coaching the ABs is a fair bit different to most rugby coaching jobs, because you're going to win the majority of your games regardless - so learning about losing regularly isn't really a necessary skill.

    What's needed is the ability to analyze and make the necessary tweaks to keep an elite team getting better - as well as retaining the players' confidence and managing some doubtless pretty big egos.

    Interesting thing about Mitch is that it was his overseas experience that was a big part of his attraction.

    JK is another who arrived back with a massive international resume, but had a pretty dismal tenure at the Blues.

    And now Gats has had a bit of a shocker.

    Frankly, I'd be happy with people who've proven themselves in Super rugby. I'd have been happy with Dave Rennie, without him needing to go overseas. I'd have been reasonably happy with Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown. I'd be happy with Razor - and Leon is working towards that status in my mind, though he needs another season or two of success with the Blues.



  • to be fair, the overseas market is a bit restricted and an unknown at present, so the safer bet is probably to stay here.



  • @Chris-B said in Crusaders 2020:

    Ideally, you want guys to be coaching the ABs at their peak - not spending their peak coaching some NH club (or even country).

    Agree with most of what you say, but curious about this:

    @Chris-B said in Crusaders 2020:

    ideally, you want guys to be coaching the ABs at their peak - not spending their peak coaching some NH club (or even country).

    When is "peak"? More experience? More youthful innovation? Pretty hard to gauge I would have thought.

    Had Hansen gone stale? Is Rennie already past it? Is Leon still learning? Robertson needs to prove more?At what age / experience level is a coach ideal?



  • @Snowy Very difficult to gauge - and will be a bit different for different people.

    But, when you've accumulated enough experience and wisdom - and before your energy and capacity to connect with the players has started to dissipate.

    But, I reckon you could get a pretty firm consensus on most AB coaches of the past 30 years as to whether they got the job too early, too late - or timing was spot on.



  • @Chris-B said in Crusaders 2020:

    @Snowy Very difficult to gauge - and will be a bit different for different people.

    But, when you've accumulated enough experience and wisdom - and before your energy and capacity to connect with the players has started to dissipate.

    But, I reckon you could get a pretty firm consensus on most AB coaches of the past 30 years as to whether they got the job too early, too late - or timing was spot on.

    and extend that to the end. Was i fired just as i learned a valuable lesson? (most will probably say yes) Did i hang on 2 years too long?



  • slight aside, but i am astounded why anyone really wants the ABs job. It probably doesn't pay that great comparable to other gigs. But the pressure is off the charts. You are expected to win every single test. You are expected to play "the right way". You are expected to do this while building depth across the park. You are expected to build depth while building combinations.

    If you do even one of those things wrong, the public are in to you.



  • @mariner4life A bit like being Prime Minister - or US President.

    You'd just about have to be a bit mad to want it. Definitely different personality types to me.

    Imagine having fluffybunnies with totally no idea coming up to you all the time, telling you where you've gone wrong and expounding their half-baked theories - while you're there thinking - "he's a fucking TIGHTHEAD prop, you twat!"

    I guess you'd be able to get a bit of amusement lurking on rugby messageboards watching clueless pillocks expounding like they're the messiah! 🙂



  • @Snowy said in Crusaders 2020:

    @Chris-B said in Crusaders 2020:

    Ideally, you want guys to be coaching the ABs at their peak - not spending their peak coaching some NH club (or even country).

    Agree with most of what you say, but curious about this:

    @Chris-B said in Crusaders 2020:

    ideally, you want guys to be coaching the ABs at their peak - not spending their peak coaching some NH club (or even country).

    When is "peak"? More experience? More youthful innovation? Pretty hard to gauge I would have thought.

    Had Hansen gone stale? Is Rennie already past it? Is Leon still learning? Robertson needs to prove more?At what age / experience level is a coach ideal?

    Hansen was down to leave at the end of the Lions, and should have. Foster could have had a crack at RWC, then we’d see from there. 2 years too long 100%



  • @Machpants said in Crusaders 2020:

    Hansen was down to leave at the end of the Lions, and should have.

    Yes. Absolutely.

    Old man shakes fist at McLeod.


Log in to reply