The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission
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Big fan of Josh Ioane but I think the TWM have got this right.
One of the things the ABs have done really well in the last 10 years or so is taking a long view and developing players slowly rather than throwing them in at the deep end.
There's been exception like Reiko & the GOAT but the approach has worked for the likes of BB, Sam Cane, Ardie etc.
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@antipodean said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@pukunui said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In both 2007 and 2011 we had multiple 1st 5 injuries so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that it happens again.
One of the biggest problems with the military is its propensity to train to fight the last war. I don't think we should take a third five-eighth just because in the past we've occasionally required one. The disparity between the top two and Josh is immense. Better to take the best possible squad and then deal with eventualities as required.
It’s a pretty stupid analogy though. Like saying we don’t need to guard the back of the fort because the enemy attacked us from there last time, there is absolutely no way they will do that again.
Ideally BB and RM stay fit and they cover 10 against minnows from within the squad with Jordie goal kicking.
But worst case is RM and BB both pick up minor injuries during pool play and are out of the Qtr.
Then we are stuck with a makeshift starter and an even more makeshift backup who isn’t even a recognised goal kicker (the biggest plus of Jordie).
You can’t bring in Ioane for that one game because it means you then have a fit again RM or BB now sitting back in NZ watching Ioane, the guy you didn’t want in the first place, in the semi and final if we make it that far.All for an extra option on the wing because you can’t decide the first choice combo.
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@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
Remembering Jimmy Cowan had forgotten how to play rugby through that tournament
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@canefan said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@kiwiinmelb said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
In all fairness, I thought Ellis was pretty good that night , no superstar, but a calm head on his shoulders
Ellis overtook Cowan as the bench option? I seem to recall Jimmy being the backup for a long time, can anyone remind me what the circumstances were?
He turned to shit
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@shark I don't really get the hate for Jordie Barrett from some on here. He made a big error in the Boks test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
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@sparky said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark I don't really get the Jordie hate from some on here. He made a big error in the Bok test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
He played well in the Lions series. He set up Julian Savea for a dead cert try in the decider only for Julian to shell the easy pass just like he did in the Super final a few years ago (this one was much easier). He is a very good goal kicker too
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Didn’t need Josh during the RC/Bledisloe, won’t need him during the RWC.
From my armchair I think they’ve taken the extra outside backs and midfielders because I don’t think they have a “top combo” per se and there is a fair amount of horses for courses with those players. When it comes to the backs the only thing that is absolutely clear is that Aaron Smith, TJP, Beauden and Mo’unga are in our top 23.
We might think such and such is top wing, or player x is first choice centre, but selections will be dictated by player fitness and opposition.
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Don't need Josh only if Barrett and Mounga have zero niggles in knockout and late round phases. Makes no sense to me , every other position we have multiple options to overcome one, two even three injuries but they travel light in one of the most important specialist positions. IMHO came down to Reiko or Jordie. One of those two should have stayed home.
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@sparky said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark I don't really get the hate for Jordie Barrett from some on here.
He's still only 22 FFS, and learning and improving. Kind of like ALB - has been around for ages, but is still only 24. Both coudl be absolute mainstays of the ABs for a few years.
JB's not front line quite yet for me, but looks very talented. Would take him at the Blues to play with his brother (Beaudy, not Kane
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@sparky said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark I don't really get the hate for Jordie Barrett from some on here. He made a big error in the Boks test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
I don't hate the guy. I'm pointing out facts. #3 fullback, #5 winger, unproven as anything else at test level.
But as I also said, I see him at 12 long term, where I think he could be realy, really good.
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@shark said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@sparky said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark I don't really get the hate for Jordie Barrett from some on here. He made a big error in the Boks test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
I don't hate the guy. I'm pointing out facts. #3 fullback, #5 winger, unproven as anything else at test level.
But as I also said, I see him at 12 long term, where I think he could be realy, really good.
Arguably our #2 goalkicker though too, and #1 over 50 m. Not to be sneezed at
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@nzzp said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@sparky said in The Mystery of Josh Ioane’s Omission:
@shark I don't really get the hate for Jordie Barrett from some on here. He made a big error in the Boks test last year, but wasn't solely to blame for defeat. He is an outstanding young player with great skills and versatility.
He might well be 10 for the Hurricanes next year. I see him developing into a 12 or a 13 eventually though.
I don't hate the guy. I'm pointing out facts. #3 fullback, #5 winger, unproven as anything else at test level.
But as I also said, I see him at 12 long term, where I think he could be realy, really good.
Arguably our #2 goalkicker though too, and #1 over 50 m. Not to be sneezed at
He has a very high ceiling and has already performed at the top level despite his age; MOTM on debut vs the Lions in the decider is pretty incredible.
Like most players his age he is inconsistent, but his form has never been as bad as some make out on here. I’m looking forward to a strong RWC from him, he’s been very good in black so far this season.
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see, this is the problem on here. Rancid was big on it to.
If you say a player isn't really to standard right now, his fans immediately take that as writing him off for all time. You Hurricanes boys seem especially taken with this. It is quite possible to think a player needs to do a bit more, and maybe in a year will be good enough. The options aren't "in now" or "out for all time".
It was the same with A Savea, who never quite got test rugby, until he absolutely did, and now is one of the first on the team sheet you would imagine.
I believe JB will have a pretty decent AB career, but right now, in 2019, i don't think he's so good that we need to take him, given the options we have, and the hole elsewhere.
