Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an overseas kiwi the MIQ is a total fail. I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule? The only kiwis coming hone at the moment are those who are returning to settle in NZ. The elimination strategy is failing anyway. Another 18 cases today despite the lockdowns. Good on key for writing his article.
They are starting to dial down the elimination talk. But I don't think they are leading strongly with the idea that we must open up soon
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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an overseas kiwi the MIQ is a total fail. I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule? The only kiwis coming hone at the moment are those who are returning to settle in NZ. The elimination strategy is failing anyway. Another 18 cases today despite the lockdowns. Good on key for writing his article.
The Skegg report showed options down that pathway that the government was offering up as the basis for its plan to reopen.
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an overseas kiwi the MIQ is a total fail. I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule? The only kiwis coming hone at the moment are those who are returning to settle in NZ. The elimination strategy is failing anyway. Another 18 cases today despite the lockdowns. Good on key for writing his article.
The Skegg report showed options down that pathway that the government was offering up as the basis for its plan to reopen.
They’ve painted themselves into a corner. Now they’ll need spin to explain the reverse gears. NZ looked the deal with the first outbreak. Now it just looks stuck in the mud as the rest of the world gets on with living. If they want 90% vaccination they need to give a tangible incentive: such as Covid pass with no access to restaurants, bars, sports, gyms etc without a pass.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an overseas kiwi the MIQ is a total fail. I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule? The only kiwis coming hone at the moment are those who are returning to settle in NZ. The elimination strategy is failing anyway. Another 18 cases today despite the lockdowns. Good on key for writing his article.
They are starting to dial down the elimination talk. But I don't think they are leading strongly with the idea that we must open up soon
We're currently in limbo without clear direction on the way forward. We're not going for elimination because that wasn't working. We've got restrictions won't allow enough of a spread to gain immunity that way. Meanwhile, the country outside of Auckland is in level 2 to keep it eliminated. It's just a nothing state with no idea on when it'll change.
The only possible thing you could say we're doing is trying to buy time for vaccinations before easing restrictions, but our daily vaccination rates are dropping so we're not even doing that well. Probably because there's no communicated plan on the way forward. And I doubt we're going to hear one any time soon.
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@anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an overseas kiwi the MIQ is a total fail. I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule? The only kiwis coming hone at the moment are those who are returning to settle in NZ. The elimination strategy is failing anyway. Another 18 cases today despite the lockdowns. Good on key for writing his article.
They are starting to dial down the elimination talk. But I don't think they are leading strongly with the idea that we must open up soon
We're currently in limbo without clear direction on the way forward. We're not going for elimination because that wasn't working. We've got restrictions won't allow enough of a spread to gain immunity that way. Meanwhile, the country outside of Auckland is in level 2 to keep it eliminated. It's just a nothing state with no idea on when it'll change.
The only possible thing you could say we're doing is trying to buy time for vaccinations before easing restrictions, but our daily vaccination rates are dropping so we're not even doing that well. Probably because there's no communicated plan on the way forward. And I doubt we're going to hear one any time soon.
I think the message to vax needs to be much stronger. And people need to know specifics about how things will get better moving forward
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan didn't Cindy say unless the Vax rates get up much higher we won't be at L1 by Xmas?
Maybe. I've stopped listening. Clearly I'm not alone. They will never get vax rates to where they want if there are a large enough group who refuse. They need to know we won't pay for their folly forever
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan didn't Cindy say unless the Vax rates get up much higher we won't be at L1 by Xmas?
No idea if she said that or not, but that messaging would be taken by a lot of people as "I've got until Christmas to get vaccinated." It should be "Do it fucking now. Not next week, not tomorrow, NOW"
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As an overseas kiwi the MIQ is a total fail. I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule? The only kiwis coming hone at the moment are those who are returning to settle in NZ. The elimination strategy is failing anyway. Another 18 cases today despite the lockdowns. Good on key for writing his article.
The Skegg report showed options down that pathway that the government was offering up as the basis for its plan to reopen.
There’s a plan to reopen? Great. Let’s hear the details.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan didn't Cindy say unless the Vax rates get up much higher we won't be at L1 by Xmas?
That’s not the same thing as saying that if we get vac rates up to a particular level we will be at L1 by Christmas. The PM’s one doesn’t indicate any intent. My version does.
Intention is the first step in turning an idea into a plan.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc I wasn't promoting what she said, more an indication we will be in at least L2 for some time...
As long as it is the L2+ while we get vax numbers up and the next phase is sorted out I don't mind. ie increased numbers in venues.
Vax 'passports' in December would also be good if combined with increased gathering under 'no vax, no entry' rules (such as outdoor concerts.) -
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp paywalled
OK, sorry.
Extracts below
Imagine what would happen if even a small spike in Covid-19 occurred. Our ICUs and wards would quickly fill up. A ventilated Covid-19 patient can occupy an ICU bed for months. Regional hospitals typically have 10 to 12 beds in their ICU. The system wouldn’t take long to crack open.Would I then have to tell the parents of a baby that needed ventilation for a different reason, that I couldn’t offer that treatment? Would I have to offer less than optimal care? The thought is horrific, but it already happens overseas.
As long as the vaccine can’t be given to children (although signs are hopeful that the current Pfizer trials underway will soon prove the vaccine safe and effective in children), we paediatricians worry. We worry about the strain on our already fragile healthcare system. We worry that the longer term effects of Covid in children are still unknown and could be underestimated. We worry that if borders open too hastily, our kids will be sitting ducks along with the elderly and the immuno-compromised.
Cheap political shots aside, Key’s use of emotive terms such as "ruling by fear" is irresponsible and risks undermining our collective resolve just as our goal is in sight. Key knows he still has significant social capital. To use it to spread inaccurate ideas and play on our worries shows the type of leader he was, and remains.
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@nzzp the first para, about ICU spots and respirators is valid. Our line is so thin, and the risk of even a small wave of unvaccinated idiots taking up valuable space for people with other non covid related illness requiring ICU is very real. I don't have an answer as to how to deal with a chujk of the population that refuse to get the vax. Get them to waive their rights to ICU and ventilator access? Like they are going to go for that
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@canefan what this screamed to me is someone who only sees a single lense - which is health. There are issues - but the gnarly thing about life, is that there are tradeoffs.
At some stage, the impact on wellbeing, economic, cultural and the damage we do to a society by preventing socialising and travel outweighs the effects of Covid. Where that line is depends on your world views - but there is no objective assessment you can make; it's going to be subjective, and ultimately made by our elected leaders.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc I wasn't promoting what she said, more an indication we will be in at least L2 for some time...
I know you weren’t. I just dislike the purposeful ambiguity in their messaging.