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@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I still don’t understand why a valid vaccination status plus a negative PCR test is not sufficient? Why is there a blanket 2 week quarantine rule?
I think because they are alarmed at how many of those testing positive in MIQ seem to have contracted Covid in transit.
the whole pre-flight test thing is a bit of window dressing. It seems several days can pass before you have enough viable virus to return a positive result - hence Day 4 testing. So getting a test before you get on a (often long haul) flight doesn't really tell the medical authorities much.
I thought Key's op ed and his interviews on the radio this morning were all about rolling out Nat's great white hope to shore up their collapsing vote rather than a reasoned commentary on the govt's covid response. Nice sound bites guaranteed to gain publicity. All it really told us is that he's a consumate politician and Collins isn't.
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@nzzp I had some bloods done 10 days ago, the waiting room is normally empty bar me and maybe 1 or 2...this time, full, doors had to be locked to stop people coming in.
Spoke to another person who went to same lab on Thursday, same thing...
When I was in, nurse said this is back log from the L4 lockdown, for me, isnt a major, but I expect the bloods for some, 3 weeks delay could be crucial
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@taniwharugby I had to go see a surgeon this morning. He was apologetic as he'd had to reschedule me but said it's crazy now that Akl is back at L3 trying to prioritise urgent operations. Said last year no surgery was cancelled but that this time 2.5 weeks was including urgent cancer ops.
Effectively he was starting today at 7:00 and trying to plow through all his routine follow ups like me every 15 minutes to free up time in theatre later in the week.
Really not good. A couple of weeks could be life and death if your battling a an invasive cancer. Should have asked why they shut for 2.5 weeks but didn't want to waste any of his time. I guess resources?
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
Imagine if he threw his hat into the ring again. This would be the best time especially given the weakness of the National leadership along with the pivotal time we are in watching other countries have unrestricted freedoms.
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@hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
Imagine if he threw his hat into the ring again. This would be the best time especially given the weakness of the National leadership along with the pivotal time we are in watching other countries have unrestricted freedoms.
No way he does. He could see the landscape changing and got out before they went over the cliff. Like all good traders
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
Imagine if he threw his hat into the ring again. This would be the best time especially given the weakness of the National leadership along with the pivotal time we are in watching other countries have unrestricted freedoms.
No way he does. He could see the landscape changing and got out before they went over the cliff. Like all good traders
8 years doing that takes a toll, and people get tired of you. You can see it with Jacinda - three years ago she got benefit of doubt, now people are way more skeptical. It's a hell of a job, wouldn't wish it on anyone
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
Imagine if he threw his hat into the ring again. This would be the best time especially given the weakness of the National leadership along with the pivotal time we are in watching other countries have unrestricted freedoms.
No way he does. He could see the landscape changing and got out before they went over the cliff. Like all good traders
8 years doing that takes a toll, and people get tired of you. You can see it with Jacinda - three years ago she got benefit of doubt, now people are way more skeptical. It's a hell of a job, wouldn't wish it on anyone
The pushback will come for her in the 3rd term as more and more people tire of her
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Yesterday: "So just making sure that people know that our researchers and evidence overseas is telling us that a high vaccination rate doesn't stop outbreaks." - Jacinda in response to Key's piece.
Today: When vaccination is up around the 90 per cent mark, then you really start to see it making a difference to day to day life, Ardern told Breakfast. She gave an example on how if you have an entire town that has a rate of around 70 per cent, then "that's a place where you will absolutely have an outbreak", Ardern said.
So we need high vaccination rates to stop outbreaks, but high vaccination rates don't stop outbreaks. Great logic.
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They've never had problems wanting to enforce stupid dress codes or having door staff select who they want in.
Are they worried about a few Karen's?I can see how a restaurant wouldn't want to get into arguments with customers though. Especially a group party with one holdout amongst them.
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@hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
Imagine if he threw his hat into the ring again. This would be the best time especially given the weakness of the National leadership along with the pivotal time we are in watching other countries have unrestricted freedoms.
I'd be stoked. At worst he would sort out Labour's mess and then hand over to another leader.
Whether he has the interest in doing it again would be the issue.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
They've never had problems wanting to enforce stupid dress codes or having door staff select who they want in.
Are they worried about a few Karen's?I can see how a restaurant wouldn't want to get into arguments with customers though. Especially a group party with one holdout amongst them.
I dunno, must suck to have to be the government's enforcement arm because they won't do anything unpopular, like fines.
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan fines for what?
Breaking lockdown rules.
OK. I thought we were discussing COVID passports and their possible application but feel free to throw in a random comment.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp paywalled
OK, sorry.
Extracts below
Imagine what would happen if even a small spike in Covid-19 occurred. Our ICUs and wards would quickly fill up. A ventilated Covid-19 patient can occupy an ICU bed for months. Regional hospitals typically have 10 to 12 beds in their ICU. The system wouldn’t take long to crack open.Would I then have to tell the parents of a baby that needed ventilation for a different reason, that I couldn’t offer that treatment? Would I have to offer less than optimal care? The thought is horrific, but it already happens overseas.
As long as the vaccine can’t be given to children (although signs are hopeful that the current Pfizer trials underway will soon prove the vaccine safe and effective in children), we paediatricians worry. We worry about the strain on our already fragile healthcare system. We worry that the longer term effects of Covid in children are still unknown and could be underestimated. We worry that if borders open too hastily, our kids will be sitting ducks along with the elderly and the immuno-compromised.
Cheap political shots aside, Key’s use of emotive terms such as "ruling by fear" is irresponsible and risks undermining our collective resolve just as our goal is in sight. Key knows he still has significant social capital. To use it to spread inaccurate ideas and play on our worries shows the type of leader he was, and remains.
“Cheap political shots aside”, then makes some cheap political shots.
Anyway, so if I’m understanding it correctly the argument goes:
1 People overseas have COVID
2 If we let them in they will bring COVID onshore
3 COVID will then be in our MIQ and will inevitably escape into the community in our major cities, where the MIQ facilities are located, because the facilities are in fact hotels that were never designed to cope with virus containment
4 We have limited defence because we aren’t vaccinated to the necessary degree
5 We will get widespread COVID in the community
6 Sick people will go into hospitals
7 The hospitals have insufficient ICU beds
8 The ICU units have insufficient ICU care professionals
9 The sick COVID people will therefore overwhelm our health capacity
10 People will die in drovesTherefore we can’t open up our borders.
Item 3, MIQ facilities are located are in hotels in cities. Despite this being a conscious government policy decision it is not the government’s fault. There are no purpose built facilities. Despite this being a conscious government policy decision it is not the government’s fault. There has been no attempt to build purpose built facilities outside cities. Despite nobody else having the authority to do this it is not the government’s fault.
Item 4, our population isn’t vaccinated to a high enough level. Despite the ordering of vaccines being something only the government is empowered to do, the late arrival of vaccines is not the government’s fault. Despite the vaccination rollout waves being designed and promoted by the government, all of the messaging being the government’s / DOH’s responsibility and the location of vaccination facilities being dictated by official policy, the lower than required vaccination rates are not the government’s fault.
Item 7, ICU facilities were a known constraint, and in fact the original justification for Lockdowns. In the interim 19 months there has been minimal material additional capacity introduced. Of the $60bn spent on COVID related response practically no money has been spent on scaling up these facilities. It is not the government’s fault though.
Item 8, as with the ICU facilities this was a known constraint. There is no way to train staff internally in the time we had so the only other alternative is to hire from offshore. There are reportedly barriers to granting visas to suitably trained medical staff. But this isn’t the government’s fault.
That’s a lot of things that are in the way of opening up the borders that lie outside the government’s control. If only there was someone whose job it is to make the policy decisions, and plan and execute the delivery, maybe like a group of elected representatives and a public department with staff to do it.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan fines for what?
Breaking lockdown rules.
OK. I thought we were discussing COVID passports and their possible application but feel free to throw in a random comment.
It was an example of Labour avoiding doing anything unpopular. I'll remember to add more context next time so you can keep up.
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
John is speaking a lot of sense
Man I miss the grown ups. An interesting insight into how a competent goverment under covid would look.
Imagine if he threw his hat into the ring again. This would be the best time especially given the weakness of the National leadership along with the pivotal time we are in watching other countries have unrestricted freedoms.
I'd be stoked. At worst he would sort out Labour's mess and then hand over to another leader.
Whether he has the interest in doing it again would be the issue.
I don't think for a second he is considering it. It was more of a daydream post on my part.
What I think is happening is that he is just giving National a bit of a hand at the moment.
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@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@kirwan fines for what?
Breaking lockdown rules.
OK. I thought we were discussing COVID passports and their possible application but feel free to throw in a random comment.
It was an example of Labour avoiding doing anything unpopular. I'll remember to add more context next time so you can keep up.
Seems to me they are doing a lot of unpopular things including the possibility of restricting venue access based on vaccination status as per the article quoted.
As for your quip about fines they even recently increased the infringement fee levels across the board to some quite high numbers(from on the spot notices to court imposed levels).
I still don't get what your point is apart from wanting to just throw mud. -
@crucial his point is, asking mostly young people making $20 an hour in an industry not operating at full capacity to be the front line of your Covid "regulation" response is shitty, and deserves more than your pithy little quip about dress-codes.
Coronavirus - New Zealand