Coronavirus - Australia
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@tim said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - Australia:
when it's proven the vaccine doesn't restrict transmission.
Don't think this is proven. Even for those that still get infected.
Also, the risk of hospitalisation is much lower for vaccinated vs unvaccinated, and not everyone has been infected yet.
Think I needed to word this better.
First point - may not have been proven, but that view has been circulated quite widely up here - by the government, media & many independents. Doesn't make it true of course, but assuming we follow the government (which should be natural first point), there is a contradiction there.
Second point - Don't get me wrong - I totally agree in the vaccination drive and pushing it, totally. As regardless of first point, it's for everybody's own benefit.
Let's take this hypothetical argument which I think is an interesting point. Assuming of course the point of not reducing transmission is proven valid.
- Vaccinated care worker, isn't aware has it as vaccination is working. Could spread it to others.
- Unvaccinated care worker, gets ill so knows has it. Thus does not work and (from this point on) cannot spread it.
Thus, isn't it safer (transmission wise) for the care worker to remain unvaccinated?
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I haven't seen much good data for delta on transmission from infected vaccinated vs. unvaccinated patients, nor viral load used as a proxy.
From Imperial College's ongoing REACT studies, which are large and randomised (98,000 people with 523 positive samples), I have seen, for those who have tested positive:
We analysed Ct values associated with positive results among vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals as a measure of viral load and as a proxy for infectiousness. For all positives in round 13, at ages 18 to 64 years, median Ct value was higher for vaccinated participants at 27.6 (25.5, 29.7) compared with unvaccinated at 23.1 (20.3, 25.8) (positive defined as N gene Ct <37 or both N gene and E gene positive, Methods) (Table 7, Figure 3). The higher Ct values among vaccinated people indicate lower infectiousness, consistent with transmission studies conducted when the Alpha variant was dominant, in which vaccinated individuals were at substantially lower risk of passing on infection [15].
Ct is the number of cycles a qPCR sample has to be amplified for the fluorescent signal to exceed a threshold over background signal, which then indicates a positive result. With each thermal cycle of PCR the number of copies of the DNA amplicon (bit you are trying to make more of) doubles, and hence fluorescent signal roughly doubles too.
If there are four cycles more required for vaxed samples on average, then the viral load would be about 16x lower for vaxed people.
Do not know how that translates to transmission.
There is also the issue as to how long they remain infected/contagious for. May be that they are contagious for a significantly shorter time.
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@majorrage In your hypothetical, the care worker may well still be asymptomatic or have light symptoms, and is probably regularly tested. Given the reduction of risk of infection at all from vaccinated (saw 10x reported a US delta study the other day), and the low risk of strong symptoms in the care worker, I'd say it's better for them to be vaxxed.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mikethesnow I think you missed one point here fella, which is one you planted in my head.
What's the point of vaccination proof if the whole idea is to protect others .... when it's proven the vaccine doesn't restrict transmission.
Point 1 above
I want to get back to Japan. If I need to show two jab proof then I've got it.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - Australia:
- Vaccinated care worker, isn't aware has it as vaccination is working. Could spread it to others.
- Unvaccinated care worker, gets ill so knows has it. Thus does not work and (from this point on) cannot spread it.
Thus, isn't it safer (transmission wise) for the care worker to remain unvaccinated?
The issue is you shed virus before being symptomatic as I understand it. So the two days you're at work shedding virus and infecting people before you even get the chance of starting to feel symptoms.
I understand the contrast with H1N1 (or other flu) was they had symptoms at the time you started spreading -- hence the temp checks at airports, public places, etc.
@tim will no doubt be able to actually confirm or deny this though
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I thought the vaccine did significantly reduce how contagious you were, my only real work example was my mate in the uk, double jabbed but got delta a couple of weeks later, he was laid up for a week with what he described as the worst flu hes ever had, but his wife and kids didn't even catch it
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@nzzp so the question is whether we equally spread and whether we are ever going to use symptoms as a means of diagnosis. How much of the virus does an asymptomatic person shed compared to someone who is hacking up a storm or whatever the symptoms. Some, I would say, could use that as an excuse to never return to normality. So your guilty of having the virus until proven innocent, or that your had the vaccine, although you can still get the virus having had the vaccine, and that has to be on a daily basis because the possibility of infection changes moment to moment. In the past we have used symptoms as clues to what’s going on. You can’t pee maybe your prostate is swollen. Your hands are swollen maybe you have the swollen hands blues. This is insane.
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@nta said in Coronavirus - Australia:
VIC: records results midnight to midnight, announces just after 9AM
NSW: records 8PM to 8PM, announces just after 11AM
I find this weird.
you only now find this weird? Appears to be just another states doing everything their own way
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@bayimports thats what i was thinking, and where i think the average person would just go "might as well do the same thing, keep it simple" governments seem to think..."this is how i prove my power and independence"
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@bayimports thats what i was thinking, and where i think the average person would just go "might as well do the same thing, keep it simple" governments seem to think..."this is how i prove my power and independence"
Even giving them benefit of the doubt, that maybe it is accidental ..I supect you are right except in WA, where everything is reported in Mark McGowan time ..(as even time needs to be approved by him)
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@bayimports and the other day a reporter had to tell Dan andrews scomo had had a press conference at the same time and just announced more vaccines coming to vic, ya have to think we're in a bad place if they dont even talk to each other about good things
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@bayimports and the other day a reporter had to tell Dan andrews scomo had had a press conference at the same time and just announced more vaccines coming to vic, ya have to think we're in a bad place if they dont even talk to each other about good things
you don't tell others stuff because then they will say it before you and you won't get the attention for it
there is a reason there are so many press conferences every. single. day. The Premiers have never had so much attention, and they love it. Even if you have nothing to say, come out and say how great that is. Well done Queenslanders!
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@mariner4life fair enough...then just do it an hour earlier, doing it at the same time is just a childish powerplay
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@kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:
childish powerplay
aaahhh
gestures broadly around him
have you only just started paying attention?
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@bayimports said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@nta said in Coronavirus - Australia:
VIC: records results midnight to midnight, announces just after 9AM
NSW: records 8PM to 8PM, announces just after 11AM
I find this weird.
you only now find this weird? Appears to be just another states doing everything their own way
I wasn't previously paying attention to the fact Victoria announced earlier in the day 🤷♂️
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ACT lockdown extended by another month. If you think that's fine, save yourself and me the hassle of responding.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
ACT lockdown extended by another month. If you think that's fine, save yourself and me the hassle of responding.
There are a few state governments who will get very nervous if vaccinations stall in the 60s
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My nephew just sent me the Gladys video about NSW being locked down for ever. I know that in itself is shit, but the video is funny.
You tube seem to have no sense of humour and have taken it down, but there is this:
If anyone can find a link it is a bit of a giggle.