The GOAT
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@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
I'd put more names in the Mix - and will undoubtedly come up with more as I think.
Michael Jordan - similar sort of background to Brady actually.
Cristiano Ronaldo - football very subjective especially over time and many will argue Messi over him too ...
Floyd Mayweather - all comers, all time, doesn't lose.
Serena Williams has her name in the hat as well
Tiger ... hmmmm .... not quite for me.Redgrave certainly in the conversation
If you're talking Kick ball then Pele and Maradona get in the mix. Neither Christiano Ronaldo nor Messi have won a a World Cup.
Re @MN5 Bradman a definite contender.
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In the interests of furthering debate howsabout some Olympic swimmers?
Mark Spitz?
Michael Phelps?Not huge fan as if you can float fast you can win multiple medals. Again compare that to Redgrave who got a shot at 1 five times. Not 10 three times in the case of Phelps.
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@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Serena Williams has her name in the hat as well
LOL no. You cannot put a woman into a conversation like this against men who would nil her every fucking day. Ridiculous, and an insult to the Fed.
If you look at it from THAT point of view, then you are spot on correct ...
@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
I'd put more names in the Mix - and will undoubtedly come up with more as I think.
Michael Jordan - similar sort of background to Brady actually.
Cristiano Ronaldo - football very subjective especially over time and many will argue Messi over him too ...
Floyd Mayweather - all comers, all time, doesn't lose.
Serena Williams has her name in the hat as well
Tiger ... hmmmm .... not quite for me.Redgrave certainly in the conversation
If you're talking Kick ball then Pele and Maradona get in the mix. Neither Christiano Ronaldo nor Messi have won a a World Cup.
Re @MN5 Bradman a definite contender.
European club football is miles above the level of world cup. Giroud has won a world cup FFS.
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Jesse Owens. Because BLM. And I mean that seriously. Black guy fucking up the Furher.
These conversations usually have Ali in there for similar reasons.
Mayweather though clearly the better boxer in that he's so far ahead of his competition. Which I think is the point of the thread.
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@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Jesse Owens. Because BLM. And I mean that seriously. Black guy fucking up the Furher.
These conversations usually have Ali in there for similar reasons.
Mayweather though clearly the better boxer in that he's so far ahead of his competition. Which I think is the point of the thread.
Yeah ... Not sure of my criteria re "Greatest" v. "Best". (GOAT v BOAT
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@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Jesse Owens. Because BLM. And I mean that seriously. Black guy fucking up the Furher.
These conversations usually have Ali in there for similar reasons.
Mayweather though clearly the better boxer in that he's so far ahead of his competition. Which I think is the point of the thread.
It's not that simple.
Mayweather was very good at deciding who to fight and when to fight them.
Ali's era of boxing was so much stronger than who Floyd fought it's not even funny.
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IMO, this discussion should be limited to professional sports, because there is a huge difference between those who are/were the GOAT in sports people played for fun versus those that played in in professional careers.
I was thinking today that just because of legend, Ali is probably still the person I'd say is the greatest, but that's also probably like saying that Jonah is the GOAT. The legend exceeds the results.
In terms of results, and a brilliant story (The Brady 6 is a fucking epic documentary that just gets better and better), #199 to 7 Superbowl rings is a pretty hard story to beat.
Plus Giselle.
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@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Serena Williams has her name in the hat as well
LOL no. You cannot put a woman into a conversation like this against men who would nil her every fucking day. Ridiculous, and an insult to the Fed.
That depends, and it's not ridiculous at all IMO. You're right if you consider the GOAT to be the player/athelete who consistently beats everyone else (you seem to go for that approach). You're wrong if you consider the GOAT to be the best performing player/athlete (e.g. the athlete with the highest number of wins/medals/highest ranking).
If you choose the first, you're comparing apples and oranges when you're comparing sportsmen and women, for the simple reason that they differ considerably physically. So yeah, then a woman could never be a GOAT. You can also never pick a bantamweight boxer, no matter how good, because they'd always be beaten by a heavy weight. A Paralympian could then also never be a GOAT, because they'd always be beaten by an able-bodied sportsperson.
I think that's completely the wrong approach and an insult to all the excellent sportspeople that you exclude that way. If you go for the second approach, you can look at number of grand slams won, number of masters won, other important tournaments. World rankings, and how long they've held the top spot in a sportsperson's own sportscode & category.
I prefer the second approach, and would put both the Fed and Serena Williams on the list of GOATs.
To me, Valerie Adams also belongs on the list using the same approach.
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@Stargazer said in The GOAT:
@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Serena Williams has her name in the hat as well
LOL no. You cannot put a woman into a conversation like this against men who would nil her every fucking day. Ridiculous, and an insult to the Fed.
That depends, and it's not ridiculous at all IMO. You're right if you consider the GOAT to be the player who consistently beats everyone else (you seem to go for that approach). You're wrong if you consider the GOAT to be the best performing player (e.g. the player with the highest number of wins/medals/highest ranking).
If you choose the first, you're comparing apples and oranges when you're comparing sportsmen and women, for the simple reason that they differ considerably physically. So yeah, then a woman could never be a GOAT. You can also never pick a bantamweight boxer, no matter how good, because they'd always be beaten by a heavy weight. A Paralympian could then also never be a GOAT, because they'd always be beaten by an able-bodied sportsperson.
I think that's completely the wrong approach and an insult to all the excellent sportspeople that you exclude that way. If you go for the second approach, you can look at number of grand slams won, number of masters won, other important tournaments. World rankings, and how long they've held the top spot in a sportsperson's own sportscode & category.
I prefer the second approach, and would put both the Fed and Serena Williams on the list of GOATs.
To me, Valerie Adams also belongs on the list using the same approach.
I'm not going to read all of that. But credit for your patient response.
Karsten Braasch destroyed the Williams sisters after boozing, golf, and more beer.
This is an argument about THE GREATEST. That's the definite article, and it's singular. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE. Anyone who cannot compete with men cannot be in a separate category of trying really hard when we are talking about the Greatest Of All Time.
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Preparation is crucial. Remember that a game like this is light-hearted - taking it too seriously would be a mistake. My training regime consisted of a leisurely round of golf in the morning followed by a couple of shandies. I turned up on court feeling suitably laid-back.
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@KiwiMurph said in The GOAT:
@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Jesse Owens. Because BLM. And I mean that seriously. Black guy fucking up the Furher.
These conversations usually have Ali in there for similar reasons.
Mayweather though clearly the better boxer in that he's so far ahead of his competition. Which I think is the point of the thread.
It's not that simple.
Mayweather was very good at deciding who to fight and when to fight them.
Ali's era of boxing was so much stronger than who Floyd fought it's not even funny.
We will have to agree to disagree. Mayweathers record is absolutely not a list of nobodies.
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@Stargazer said in The GOAT:
@MajorRage said in The GOAT:
Serena Williams has her name in the hat as well
LOL no. You cannot put a woman into a conversation like this against men who would nil her every fucking day. Ridiculous, and an insult to the Fed.
That depends, and it's not ridiculous at all IMO. You're right if you consider the GOAT to be the player who consistently beats everyone else (you seem to go for that approach). You're wrong if you consider the GOAT to be the best performing player (e.g. the player with the highest number of wins/medals/highest ranking).
If you choose the first, you're comparing apples and oranges when you're comparing sportsmen and women, for the simple reason that they differ considerably physically. So yeah, then a woman could never be a GOAT. You can also never pick a bantamweight boxer, no matter how good, because they'd always be beaten by a heavy weight. A Paralympian could then also never be a GOAT, because they'd always be beaten by an able-bodied sportsperson.
I think that's completely the wrong approach and an insult to all the excellent sportspeople that you exclude that way. If you go for the second approach, you can look at number of grand slams won, number of masters won, other important tournaments. World rankings, and how long they've held the top spot in a sportsperson's own sportscode & category.
I prefer the second approach, and would put both the Fed and Serena Williams on the list of GOATs.
To me, Valerie Adams also belongs on the list using the same approach.
This is an argument about THE GREATEST. That's the definite article, and it's singular. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE. Anyone who cannot compete with men cannot be in a separate category of trying really hard when we are talking about the Greatest Of All Time.
We will have to agree to disagree. What your approach comes down to is that only able-bodied men can be GOATs in a sport because they have certain genetic/hormonal etc advantages that have nothing to do with performance, talent, skill and/or training effort.
