All Blacks 2021
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus he's a very bad buddhist isn't he! Report him I reckon.
Buddhists believe in Karma rather than punishment, right?
And he isn't AB coach. So... -
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 you might be surprised to learn that the SA franchises boasted a worse success rate than Aussie sides in NZ. And if I remember correctly it wasn't even close either. The overall stats for the SA sides in more recent times (especially from around 2015-16 onwards) makes for embarrassing reading, there's little point denying that.
i dont think im drawing too long a bow to suggest that that might have something to do with travel and time differences
our lack of success in SA has also been attributed by some to bias refs over there
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
@gt12 you might be surprised to learn that the SA franchises boasted a worse success rate than Aussie sides in NZ. And if I remember correctly it wasn't even close either. The overall stats for the SA sides in more recent times (especially from around 2015-16 onwards) makes for embarrassing reading, there's little point denying that.
i dont think im drawing too long a bow to suggest that that might have something to do with travel and time differences
our lack of success in SA has also been attributed by some to bias refs over there
Egon Seconds...
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
They hardly brought a lot of value to Super Rugby (except diversity) besides cheating officials and corrupt administrators.
I don't agree. They brought huge physicality to the game, and a different style of play for people and teams to adapt to. They forced us to learn how to travel long distances and play well. They made us develop different game plans to win at altitude.
That appears to be something we learnt easily. We dominated them in SR.
Not all the teams, all the time. Point being that it educated a large amount of players what was necessary to improve their game.
Chiefs being thrashed in a final comes to mind. Blues had issues with the Sharks many times.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
They hardly brought a lot of value to Super Rugby (except diversity) besides cheating officials and corrupt administrators.
I don't agree. They brought huge physicality to the game, and a different style of play for people and teams to adapt to. They forced us to learn how to travel long distances and play well. They made us develop different game plans to win at altitude.
That appears to be something we learnt easily. We dominated them in SR.
Not all the teams, all the time. Point being that it educated a large amount of players what was necessary to improve their game.
Chiefs being thrashed in a final comes to mind. Blues had issues with the Sharks many times.
And, they have a lot of really good players with different strengths to ours. Their teams may not have had the success, but they have some really fucking good rugby players. Your team can win a game while you yourself got beat. That's a learning experience.
But, you know, if you just look at it as shallowly as possible, then yeah, the Lions sucked so South Africa is worthless. So is everyone not named the Crusaders. Razor is god!!!
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my biggest problem was never with the SA teams themselves, it was always just with the travel/time and the apparently loss of interest for a lot of people, a huge (anecdotal) drop in those that would get up to watch the game live and in the last decade even more because social media made it much harder to avoid a score and watch a replay, as soon as a chunk of your games are only watched by hard out die hard fans youre in trouble, in my mind
dont know what the solution was but a competition needed people watching it to be successful
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
my biggest problem was never with the SA teams themselves, it was always just with the travel/time and the apparently loss of interest for a lot of people, a huge (anecdotal) drop in those that would get up to watch the game live and in the last decade even more because social media made it much harder to avoid a score and watch a replay, as soon as a chunk of your games are only watched by hard out die hard fans youre in trouble, in my mind
dont know what the solution was but a competition needed people watching it to be successful
i got old. i used to watch them at the pub!! Absolutely steamed, trying to focus on the TV. You know, the trusty one-eye squint.
Then i would be home well before kickoff.
Then i stopped caring.
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i'll add to my point, i think part of the loss in interest came from playing the springboks so much
a lot of whats special about watching some of their great players play is lost when you know you'll get to see them twice (or three times) for the Bokke...scarcity does help grow importance, if its your only shot to beat a team this season then you cant help but put some importance on it
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TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well. -
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
i'll add to my point, i think part of the loss in interest came from playing the springboks so much
a lot of whats special about watching some of their great players play is lost when you know you'll get to see them twice (or three times) for the Bokke...scarcity does help grow importance, if its your only shot to beat a team this season then you cant help but put some importance on it
that's everything about SANZAR though. the whole "more is better" attitude that bloated everything, simply to create content.
Super rugby kept getting bigger so there were more games (there were other reasons, but i am sure this was the main one)
the Tri-Nations got bigger, suddenly 3 games. Then another Bledisloe. more! more! more!Meanwhile the 6N stuck to their guns, and look at it. We used to look down at that, now i fucking love it. Play each other meaningfully once a year. You lose that? 12 months for revenge. Not a week.
I have sympathy though. How the fuck you create and administer a sporting competition that spans then entire southern hemisphere, and keep all parties happy, and make it fair? seems a nightmare. And i reckon it's a losing battle because no one can agree with the best way forward is. Europe has the money and the geography.
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well.we don't have that factory that they have somewhere outside of Bloemfontein that produces unit after unit of 2m+ jacked 2nd rowers with crew-cuts
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2021:
i'll add to my point, i think part of the loss in interest came from playing the springboks so much
a lot of whats special about watching some of their great players play is lost when you know you'll get to see them twice (or three times) for the Bokke...scarcity does help grow importance, if its your only shot to beat a team this season then you cant help but put some importance on it
that's everything about SANZAR though. the whole "more is better" attitude that bloated everything, simply to create content.
Super rugby kept getting bigger so there were more games (there were other reasons, but i am sure this was the main one)
the Tri-Nations got bigger, suddenly 3 games. Then another Bledisloe. more! more! more!Meanwhile the 6N stuck to their guns, and look at it. We used to look down at that, now i fucking love it. Play each other meaningfully once a year. You lose that? 12 months for revenge. Not a week.
I have sympathy though. How the fuck you create and administer a sporting competition that spans then entire southern hemisphere, and keep all parties happy, and make it fair? seems a nightmare. And i reckon it's a losing battle because no one can agree with the best way forward is. Europe has the money and the geography.
100%, i think we need to realise we cant have it all, we can either have smaller meaningful and competitive competitions...basically super 12 and OG tri nations....or we have larger less competitive competitions and rely on scarcity for the meanfulness (see a RC with japan and or PI and maybe only playing them once)
but i dont think we have have big + meaningful + competitive, not just by playing the same teams more anyway
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@kirwan said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2021:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2021:
They hardly brought a lot of value to Super Rugby (except diversity) besides cheating officials and corrupt administrators.
I don't agree. They brought huge physicality to the game, and a different style of play for people and teams to adapt to. They forced us to learn how to travel long distances and play well. They made us develop different game plans to win at altitude.
That appears to be something we learnt easily. We dominated them in SR.
Not all the teams, all the time. Point being that it educated a large amount of players what was necessary to improve their game.
Chiefs being thrashed in a final comes to mind. Blues had issues with the Sharks many times.
I agree, not all teams all the time. That's a function of depth and a clear argument against the expansion of what was once a premium product.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well.we don't have that factory that they have somewhere outside of Bloemfontein that produces unit after unit of 2m+ jacked 2nd rowers with crew-cuts
We could just import them while their country becomes a failed state.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well.we don't have that factory that they have somewhere outside of Bloemfontein that produces unit after unit of 2m+ jacked 2nd rowers with crew-cuts
Not wanting to get in a shitfight with the new holiday happy Mariner, but is the gap in tall timber at the top level actually even that big or noticeable these days (aside from pure depth)? Only Lood seems to be an outlier in complete size.
The Boks still carry 1.98m locks and we seem to be pretty well stocked with them and guys sitting on or over the 2m mark - just some coaches like to play smaller guys.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well.we don't have that factory that they have somewhere outside of Bloemfontein that produces unit after unit of 2m+ jacked 2nd rowers with crew-cuts
We could just import them while their country becomes a failed state.
ah yes, teh Black Caps method
Can we do better than Rawlinson though?
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well.we don't have that factory that they have somewhere outside of Bloemfontein that produces unit after unit of 2m+ jacked 2nd rowers with crew-cuts
Not wanting to get in a shitfight with the new holiday happy Mariner, but is the gap in tall timber at the top level actually even that big or noticeable these days (aside from pure depth)? Only Lood seems to be an outlier in complete size.
The Boks still carry 1.98m locks and we seem to be pretty well stocked with them and guys sitting on or over the 2m mark - just some coaches like to play smaller guys.
our locks may be big-ish, but they aren't very good, and they aren't very hard. We've got the 2 all-timers, both waning, and then zilch.
Those young kids are big enough, but are they hard enough? good enough? Time will tell i suppose. -
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2021:
@nepia said in All Blacks 2021:
TBH, as I got older I probably started watching Saffa games again as I'd get up and watch them in the morning while I ate breakfast, while skipping through all the faffing between the actual play.
Anyway, to solve the issue, let's just designate one of our teams to play like a Saffa team.
I'd nominate the Canes but they have shit 10s and midget locks so might not work too well.we don't have that factory that they have somewhere outside of Bloemfontein that produces unit after unit of 2m+ jacked 2nd rowers with crew-cuts
We could just import them while their country becomes a failed state.
The initial chicken runners offered us barely anything (settle down Canes fans, Goosen aint that good) so I doubt we're ever going to get any quality from them.
I've been extremely disappointed with the quality of Saffas we let come here, NH should be a powerhouse with a huge pack.
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@mariner4life Increasingly I suspect that we will have to compromise and select a shorter power lock, if we want to maintain some 2nd row grunt.
