The Crusaders and their success
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I've been watching and occasionally interacting with Ben Darwin on twitter on this sort of thing. He runs an outfit (Gain Line Analytics) that does organisation-based statistics, and this is his pinned tweet:
This stuck with me in reference to the wider level of an organisation, with relation to a discussion a couple of weeks back on the demise of the Tahs:
There is also a significant correlation between success and squad time together on the park according to some of his other stuff.
I think all these things point to why the Crusaders continue to succeed, along with my own belief that they resemble the Brumbies to a degree in that their feeder pathways are narrow. Contrast that to the Blues or Tahs who, despite being the big boys in the room in terms of numbers, continue to underperform.
Their successful teams over the years have changed glacially; long termers in key positions with a few parts swapped out here and there. No dickheads policy seems to rule the roost, while their back office are focused on success.
And when you're successful, you've got your pick of the players who aspire to play through to the highest level.
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This is early days, but we can see the difference in the Blues, with the off field staff getting sorted out.
New board, new CEO, new coaches (that do the talent spotting), better facilities to train, effort put into club relationships with the franchise.
When the Blues were a basketcase in all those areas, it filtered down to the players, and effected the ability to attract new talent. Poor selections at coach (Kirwan and Tana) by a starstruck fanboy board just set the ceiling really low.
So it's not one answer for the Cantabs, but they clearly have the off field side of things very organised.
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I mentioned a couple of times that I've been reading a series of Terry McLean's books. I'm currently reading about the 1959 Lions tour. McLean writes:
"What a remarkable record Canterbury has against overseas teams! The Lions were the 20th of 30 overseas visiting teams to be beaten by the province."
In another book he wrote about Canterbury being a maverick province, which didn't get anyone on the AB selection panel for more than a decade.
I was going to say (as I've said before) that a decent chunk of the road leads back to Grizz Wyllie and the Glenmark Club. But, probably some of the philosophy pre-dates Wyllie. But, it's somewhat around hard, abrasive rugby - especially having a dominant forward pack.
Toddy Blackadder took this to an extreme where he barely seemed to bother with having decent backs outside No. 10. At least he didn't allocate much budget to it.
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@nzzp I think that's a notable part of Leon's strategy. He didn't think, "Good enough" - he went out and signed Nepo Laulala to give the Blues four test props.
Still some chinks in the locks and hookers - and further in the inside backs, but the Blues are clearly a strong team now and can match the Crusaders.
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It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home. They weren’t the best team in any of those years but that established a winning culture that continued on from there. It also helped that some astonishing talent (McCaw, Carter and Mauger)came in at the perfect time after the miserable 2001 season. Now it’s just an unstoppable machine. I’m in absolute awe of what they have achieved. It seems everything from
recruitment to culture is absolutely world class.It also helps that they sabotage other teams with their coaching rejects 🎣
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@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home.
Blues were robbed in 98; ref swallowed his whistle for a PT in the scrum
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One of the biggest factors in the recent success is the academy program. The fact these guys get to train as almost professional athletes. Unless they are an absolute superstar like Cullen Grace then they are not rushed. These kids train so hard in their first 2-3 years in the system that their fitness levels are crazy. Aaron Webb is one of the most important people at the crusaders.
Be interesting to see who goes further out of Aidan Morgan or Ollie Lewis. Both the nz schools 10s from 2019. One already played mitre 10 cup and in hurricanes. The other played colts for Sumner and a few games of div 1. -
@nzzp it was tongue in cheek.
Basically, the Blues IMO have hired a better coach and improved their board. They always had sizzling backs and big forwards. Still a little weak at 9 and 10 imo. -
@chris-b said in The Crusaders and their success:
I mentioned a couple of times that I've been reading a series of Terry McLean's books. I'm currently reading about the 1959 Lions tour. McLean writes:
"What a remarkable record Canterbury has against overseas teams! The Lions were the 20th of 30 overseas visiting teams to be beaten by the province."
In another book he wrote about Canterbury being a maverick province, which didn't get anyone on the AB selection panel for more than a decade.
I was going to say (as I've said before) that a decent chunk of the road leads back to Grizz Wyllie and the Glenmark Club. But, probably some of the philosophy pre-dates Wyllie. But, it's somewhat around hard, abrasive rugby - especially having a dominant forward pack.
Toddy Blackadder took this to an extreme where he barely seemed to bother with having decent backs outside No. 10. At least he didn't allocate much budget to it.
So SBW was crap AND cheap?
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@nostrildamus said in The Crusaders and their success:
@nzzp it was tongue in cheek.
Basically, the Blues IMO have hired a better coach and improved their board. They always had sizzling backs and big forwards. Still a little weak at 9 and 10 imo.I'm banging the same drum as ever ... the board led all the good changes.
In hindsight, Pat Lam was a decent enough coach. JK adn Tana - poor choices by a poor board. Fantastic human beings, but not great coaches. Kind of the example - hoping for a miracle, not expecting solid performance.
Leon can't do what he's done with a dysfunctional organisation. The front of house enables the team to perfrom to their potential
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@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home.
Blues were robbed in 98; ref swallowed his whistle for a PT in the scrum
IIRC the Highlanders were robbed against the Blues in the semi. Controversial try to James Kerr. Isitolo Maka creating absolute havoc when he came on. Fark that guy should have been one of the greats.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home.
Blues were robbed in 98; ref swallowed his whistle for a PT in the scrum
IIRC the Highlanders were robbed against the Blues in the semi. Controversial try to James Kerr. Isitolo Maka creating absolute havoc when he came on. Fark that guy should have been one of the greats.
good memory - but Kerr the ex Aucklaner scored for the Crusaders in the final.
Maka was amazing when he was on. Like Sione lauaki - all the physical attributes, but didn't have the consistency to put it on the paddock
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@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home.
Blues were robbed in 98; ref swallowed his whistle for a PT in the scrum
IIRC the Highlanders were robbed against the Blues in the semi. Controversial try to James Kerr. Isitolo Maka creating absolute havoc when he came on. Fark that guy should have been one of the greats.
good memory - but Kerr the ex Aucklaner scored for the Crusaders in the final.
Maka was amazing when he was on. Like Sione lauaki - all the physical attributes, but didn't have the consistency to put it on the paddock
Of course. Doh. Wasn’t there some controversy right near the end of that semi?
Maka was just lazy. Went completely to pie and stayed there. Such a shame.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
Maka was just lazy. Went completely to pie and stayed there. Such a shame.
I wasn't a tenth as good as him, and I went full pies and beer. I'm not shaming, it's a legitimate (if short sighted) choice
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This post is deleted!
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@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home.
Blues were robbed in 98; ref swallowed his whistle for a PT in the scrum
What's PT?
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@kiwi_expat penalty ?
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@kiwi_expat said in The Crusaders and their success:
@nzzp said in The Crusaders and their success:
@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
It’s interesting to note that their first 3 wins were upsets and all played away from home.
Blues were robbed in 98; ref swallowed his whistle for a PT in the scrum
What's PT?
Usually "penalty try".
Not sure to what he us referring though.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in The Crusaders and their success:
astonishing talent (McCaw, Carter and Mauger)
