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@taniwharugby said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
Miss 12 was telling us how one of her friends who had 'come out' as being 'Bi' last year, fancies another girl who has 'come out' as 'Bi' too.
Happening at my kids school too.
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In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
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@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
thats how i understood things, i guess i just sit in a different place when viewing these "ethics"
I agree it is an extreme use of a court order, i just dont have as much sympathy for someone ignoring something like that, he was told what would happen, if he was doing it deliberately to make the point of how extreme it is then fair play
I think the oversimplification at the start set me off wrong, its not like canada has banned all pronouns, this is a very specific situation with years of history associated
Who said they had banned all pronouns? Nobody.
It's a fact that they jailed a father for referring to his daughter with she/her pronouns. You may agree that the government/courts having that right, but I do not.
And history is littered with examples of people protesting against what they perceived as unjust laws. It's an ongoing discussion within society about what is acceptable.
For example, was Martin Luther King Jr. wrong to protest again segregation? That was the law of the land in his time. He also knew what would happen. Any sympathy for him?
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@crazy-horse said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
I have a personal opinion that some of these kids are just gay. They should be allowed to have time to come to grips with their identity (be it trans/gay/whatever) and make permanent changes to their bodies only when they are an adult.
I feel that some of this is a weird sort of prejudice about having a gay kid. Probably lots of reasons going on, but when this stuff is driven by parents or schools then alarm bells should be ringing.
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@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kiwiwomble said in Joe Wheeler:
@antipodean i believe i understand but maybe i am missing something
Two issues in play, one about the ethics of transitioning children to a different gender with the use of hormones and surgery.
Second is the Orwellian nature of a government enacting a law with compelled speech, and a court putting people in jail to enforce it. I've been bleating on about this one, even though I think the first is child abuse.
Both are very troubling.
thats how i understood things, i guess i just sit in a different place when viewing these "ethics"
I agree it is an extreme use of a court order, i just dont have as much sympathy for someone ignoring something like that, he was told what would happen, if he was doing it deliberately to make the point of how extreme it is then fair play
I think the oversimplification at the start set me off wrong, its not like canada has banned all pronouns, this is a very specific situation with years of history associated
Who said they had banned all pronouns? Nobody.
It's a fact that they jailed a father for referring to his daughter with she/her pronouns. You may agree that the government/courts having that right, but I do not.
And history is littered with examples of people protesting against what they perceived as unjust laws. It's an ongoing discussion within society about what is acceptable.
For example, was Martin Luther King Jr. wrong to protest again segregation? That was the law of the land in his time. He also knew what would happen. Any sympathy for him?
...i just said if he did it to make a point then fair play, good for him, as i also said its extreme
you made it sound very simple, used a pronoun and was arrested, without the history a natural assumption in my mind is he has broken some sort of law rather than a specific court order
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@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@crazy-horse said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
I have a personal opinion that some of these kids are just gay. They should be allowed to have time to come to grips with their identity (be it trans/gay/whatever) and make permanent changes to their bodies only when they are an adult.
I feel that some of this is a weird sort of prejudice about having a gay kid. Probably lots of reasons going on, but when this stuff is driven by parents or schools then alarm bells should be ringing.
how do we know its "driven" by the school? support by and driven by are very different things
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@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@crazy-horse said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
In the wee area that I work in we have three kids aged around 13 years who are transitioning and things are pretty fucked for them. All three are in and out of psych wards, two have parents that cannot fathom what the hell is going on with their kid and there are constant disturbances that we have to sort out. The other one comes from a mother who has mental health problems of her own so doesn't appear overly fussed. All three keep threatening to kill themselves.
I have a personal opinion that some of these kids are just gay. They should be allowed to have time to come to grips with their identity (be it trans/gay/whatever) and make permanent changes to their bodies only when they are an adult.
I feel that some of this is a weird sort of prejudice about having a gay kid. Probably lots of reasons going on, but when this stuff is driven by parents or schools then alarm bells should be ringing.
how do we know its "driven" by the school? support by and driven by are very different things
The recent explosion of female to male transitions is one data point. The school guidence is referenced in the articles posted above, including recommending hormone treatment.
It's a disgusting social experiment on vulnerable children, and I expect some of these people will be judged very harshly in the future.
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reading more, as advised, he didnt just call him "she" he posted his sons medical details, name and picture on the internet, parents obvious have right but i dont think naming and shaming their kids on the net is one of them
the MSM with their inflammatory headlines again
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On a side note, I had to suppress a giggle the other day when a ten year old kid was abusing the hell out of his father. I tried to intervene and the kid yelled at me "you are a gender fluid fluffybunny!"
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@crazy-horse said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
On a side note, I had to suppress a giggle the other day when a ten year old kid was abusing the hell out of his father. I tried to intervene and the kid yelled at me "you are a gender fluid fluffybunny!"
Be hard not laugh as the father.
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@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
reading more, as advised, he didnt just call him "she" he posted his sons medical details, name and picture on the internet, parents obvious have right but i dont think naming and shaming their kids on the net is one of them
the MSM with their inflammatory headlines again
You are completely ignoring the part in the court order where it was demanded that he use the male pronouns.
If it was just the stuff above I would agree, but it’s not. Government compelled speech is extremely worrying.
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@kirwan i havent ignored it, ive said a couple of time its super extreme, but to say that that is solely why he was arrested ignores that actually dodgy shit (in my mind) he did
happy to agree that if that was all the court order said that would be a big overreach...but its not
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@kirwan TR Jnr said some kids were discussing Transgender stuff in class and one of them asked if he'd date a transgender person, he said no and 2 promptly called him transphobic.
Unusually for him, he just said whatever and moved away from that conversation
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@taniwharugby said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan TR Jnr said some kids were discussing Transgender stuff in class and one of them asked if he'd date a transgender person, he said no and 2 promptly called him transphobic.
Unusually for him, he just said whatever and moved away from that conversation
Yeah, the kids have a transgender kid in their year (note this intermediate and below).
Lots of those terms get thrown about, mainly racist. They also knew way too much about Trump, so were clearly getting “observations” from teachers.
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@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan i havent ignored it, ive said a couple of time its super extreme, but to say that that is solely why he was arrested ignores that actually dodgy shit (in my mind) he did
happy to agree that if that was all the court order said that would be a big overreach...but its not
No court order should be legally allowed to compel speech from a citizen. Full stop.
The fact that there were parts of the court order you agree with doesn’t make that part right.
And, again, who said it was solely the reason? It was the controversial aspect of his jailing so of course it was the focus.
You sure like your straw men.
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The whole trans thing has just gone way too far, and it's really affecting kids mental health now. @Crazy-Horse's examples above are a case in point, those kids are on the brink of suicide because they are not getting the help they need to come to grips with their own identity.
The whole thing is absurd from the outset. You get called 'cis' if you are not trans, however, when you dig further 'cis' actually means you fit the stereotypes associated with your gender. I can't even begin to explain how stupid that is, there is almost nobody that perfectly fits the stereotypes of their gender. They are just... stereotypes for fucks sake.
So then you have them brainwashing kids telling them if they don't fit this narrow stereotype they should consider they are trans, which leads some of them down an extremely dangerous path which often (nearly 50% of the time) ends in suicide.
I just can't fathom why people are standing by allowing this to happen, it seems there's only a handful of people willing to publicly speak out against it. If a kid is struggling with their identity or their gender, the best thing you can do for them is help them come to terms with who they are. If a kid is gender a-typical that doesn't mean they are trans, there's loads of overlap between the sexes when it comes to interests and behaviours. I thought we as a society were trying to move away from sexist stereotypes and allowing people to express themselves without being judged as too 'manly' or too 'feminine'. This just elevates those stereotypes as being the defining feature of who someone is.
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@kiwiwomble said in Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she":
@kirwan I’m just going to leave you to your outrage
Fine. I’ll leave you to justify the evil of the modern woke left.
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@kirwan someone disagrees and they’re evil, what ever make you feel better
Not everything “left” is evil just like not everything right is, the sooner people accept there is some middle ground where we’re can acknowledge restricting what pro nouns are used is great overreach but that posting personal medical details on line is pretty shit the better
Canadian father jailed for calling his daughter "she"