Bit of poaching stuff...
-
<span style="font-size:12px;"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76373289/NZ-rugby-clubs-are-poaching-Pacific-players-and-paying-them-illegally-says-Fiji-coach?cid=outbrain:starter'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76373289/NZ-rugby-clubs-are-poaching-Pacific-players-and-paying-them-illegally-says-Fiji-coach?cid=outbrain:starter</a></span>
NZ rugby clubs are poaching Pacific players and paying them 'illegally', says Fiji coach <div><img src="http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/9/g/l/w/5/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.19gy09.png/1454197892717.jpg" title="" alt="1454197892717.jpg"><div><span>WARREN LITTLE / GETTY IMAGES</span></div>
<div>
<p>Fiji's sevens coach Ben Ryan (right) consults with a squad member during the Dubai Sevens.</p>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.google.com/url?ct=abg&q=https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/request.py%3Fcontact%3Dabg_afc%26url%3Dhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76373289/NZ-rugby-clubs-are-poaching-Pacific-players-and-paying-them-illegally-says-Fiji-coach%253Fcid%253Doutbrain:starter%26gl%3DNZ%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dca-fairfax-stuff_js%26ai0%3DC7ZYduK_LVqTYK4rH8QWN4InQA8zFqaoJ9LfJgNECwI23ARABIOX-xgpgq-yxheAYyAEBqQLt77gdJIimPqgDAaoE6AFP0PRmsYNTsbFohKUp4z7H6sHbV7COSu9hw7az2XarvhUj9Wdc5WS99VWCYa8XhhxMbT5LgzH6ue_gEPFQxFLDG5bdneyf72zdtPsiYEh4sexTKmG8pWrvJmYlQHn60d8ix1tVwWDGB_n3nwuA_c0uGnDcafXFc43_DrPPusu8Rz83G6x4c5zGraTyzh_K4xFET0jukQ9Q7bpKx42fQjsyylAKyQo8IF_occTimFh7FYiwb7dhLH4YXGdIHFRRfmzedmHwwYqkYQu4RutWYgpLTIIN0tHHl5KqPFiRHQsMj23xK6ddnO7KgAf0q8g9qAemvhvYBwHYEwo&usg=AFQjCNEQbicHT0EAcVJ_1W2SNZTlL1QxTg'>Ads by Google</a><div><a class="" href="http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&ai=C7ZYduK_LVqTYK4rH8QWN4InQA8zFqaoJ9LfJgNECwI23ARABIOX-xgpgq-yxheAYyAEBqQLt77gdJIimPqgDAaoE6AFP0PRmsYNTsbFohKUp4z7H6sHbV7COSu9hw7az2XarvhUj9Wdc5WS99VWCYa8XhhxMbT5LgzH6ue_gEPFQxFLDG5bdneyf72zdtPsiYEh4sexTKmG8pWrvJmYlQHn60d8ix1tVwWDGB_n3nwuA_c0uGnDcafXFc43_DrPPusu8Rz83G6x4c5zGraTyzh_K4xFET0jukQ9Q7bpKx42fQjsyylAKyQo8IF_occTimFh7FYiwb7dhLH4YXGdIHFRRfmzedmHwwYqkYQu4RutWYgpLTIIN0tHHl5KqPFiRHQsMj23xK6ddnO7KgAf0q8g9qAemvhvYBwHYEwo&num=1&sig=AOD64_0kFH-vqxL95nam2MlkdvACcL7YUA&client=ca-fairfax-stuff_js&adurl=http://www.dressyfrocks.nz/">Dressy Frock Hire</a><a class="" href="http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&ai=C7ZYduK_LVqTYK4rH8QWN4InQA8zFqaoJ9LfJgNECwI23ARABIOX-xgpgq-yxheAYyAEBqQLt77gdJIimPqgDAaoE6AFP0PRmsYNTsbFohKUp4z7H6sHbV7COSu9hw7az2XarvhUj9Wdc5WS99VWCYa8XhhxMbT5LgzH6ue_gEPFQxFLDG5bdneyf72zdtPsiYEh4sexTKmG8pWrvJmYlQHn60d8ix1tVwWDGB_n3nwuA_c0uGnDcafXFc43_DrPPusu8Rz83G6x4c5zGraTyzh_K4xFET0jukQ9Q7bpKx42fQjsyylAKyQo8IF_occTimFh7FYiwb7dhLH4YXGdIHFRRfmzedmHwwYqkYQu4RutWYgpLTIIN0tHHl5KqPFiRHQsMj23xK6ddnO7KgAf0q8g9qAemvhvYBwHYEwo&num=1&sig=AOD64_0kFH-vqxL95nam2MlkdvACcL7YUA&client=ca-fairfax-stuff_js&adurl=http://www.dressyfrocks.nz/">www.dressyfrocks.nz</a>
<p class="">On trend party dresses, maternity dresses & ball gowns for hire.</p>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<p></p>
<p>The way many Pacific Island players are recruited to New Zealand clubs is "like the Wild West", says Fiji's sevens rugby coach Ben Ryan.</p>
<p>"We're getting huge amounts of players going into clubs in New Zealand and Australia and elsewhere on visas that don't allow them to be paid for playing rugby. I'll see eight or nine members of a club all go to New Zealand at the same time."</p>
<p>His comments come as it is revealed that some rugby clubs around New Zealand are allegedly creating bespoke jobs for Pacific Island rugby players, in order to get them work visas.</p>
<p>Ryan says the Pacific players often aren't given the full picture.</p>
<p><b>READ MORE:<br>
* <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76094690/the-rugby-agent-the-coach-and-the-hotel-meeting--how-to-import-pacific-players'>The rugby agent, the coach and the hotel meeting – how to import Pacific players</a><br>
* <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76373467/pacific-nations-can-refuse-to-release-rugby-players-to-nz-clubs-says-tonga-great'>Pacific nations should refuse to release rugby players to NZ clubs, says Tonga captain</a><br>
* <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76391895/from-grassroots-to-the-top-pacific-players-are-keeping-nz-rugby-alive.html'>From grassroots to the top, Pacific players are keeping NZ rugby alive</a></b></p>
<p>"A lot of these boys will get a phone call from somewhere in New Zealand saying they want them to come over, and perhaps leave out a few important points. How are they gonna survive on the money that they've been given, or the work that they're doing?"</p>
<p><strong>"They get them doing manual labour on a low wage, maybe give them some pocket money to play for their clubs, and they're dangling that carrot of a professional contract at ITM Cup level ... when they know that these contracts aren't going to be eligible to them unless they are eligible for New Zealand rugby."</strong></p>
<p>Sometimes players are on the wrong visas, Ryan says.</p>
<p>"They're illegally being paid, and then they normally overstay because these clubs offer trials and say 'if you can stay a bit longer we'll give you an extra chance for this or that'."</p>
<p>He says many agents come to Fiji to find players but are not registered.</p>
<div>
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<p>"They're ... working on poaching players at tournaments, so they're in breach of the visa travelling to Fiji. There's money going to all sorts of people, and normally the player is the last person that sees any of that."</p>
<p><strong> - Sunday Star Times</strong></p> -
<p>It seems like Steven Jones has been installed as editor-in-chief at Stuff these days.</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="560176" data-time="1456189515">
<div>
<div>
<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.google.com/url?ct=abg&q=https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/request.py%3Fcontact%3Dabg_afc%26url%3Dhttp://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/76373289/NZ-rugby-clubs-are-poaching-Pacific-players-and-paying-them-illegally-says-Fiji-coach%253Fcid%253Doutbrain:starter%26gl%3DNZ%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dca-fairfax-stuff_js%26ai0%3DC7ZYduK_LVqTYK4rH8QWN4InQA8zFqaoJ9LfJgNECwI23ARABIOX-xgpgq-yxheAYyAEBqQLt77gdJIimPqgDAaoE6AFP0PRmsYNTsbFohKUp4z7H6sHbV7COSu9hw7az2XarvhUj9Wdc5WS99VWCYa8XhhxMbT5LgzH6ue_gEPFQxFLDG5bdneyf72zdtPsiYEh4sexTKmG8pWrvJmYlQHn60d8ix1tVwWDGB_n3nwuA_c0uGnDcafXFc43_DrPPusu8Rz83G6x4c5zGraTyzh_K4xFET0jukQ9Q7bpKx42fQjsyylAKyQo8IF_occTimFh7FYiwb7dhLH4YXGdIHFRRfmzedmHwwYqkYQu4RutWYgpLTIIN0tHHl5KqPFiRHQsMj23xK6ddnO7KgAf0q8g9qAemvhvYBwHYEwo&usg=AFQjCNEQbicHT0EAcVJ_1W2SNZTlL1QxTg'>Ads by Google</a>
<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&ai=C7ZYduK_LVqTYK4rH8QWN4InQA8zFqaoJ9LfJgNECwI23ARABIOX-xgpgq-yxheAYyAEBqQLt77gdJIimPqgDAaoE6AFP0PRmsYNTsbFohKUp4z7H6sHbV7COSu9hw7az2XarvhUj9Wdc5WS99VWCYa8XhhxMbT5LgzH6ue_gEPFQxFLDG5bdneyf72zdtPsiYEh4sexTKmG8pWrvJmYlQHn60d8ix1tVwWDGB_n3nwuA_c0uGnDcafXFc43_DrPPusu8Rz83G6x4c5zGraTyzh_K4xFET0jukQ9Q7bpKx42fQjsyylAKyQo8IF_occTimFh7FYiwb7dhLH4YXGdIHFRRfmzedmHwwYqkYQu4RutWYgpLTIIN0tHHl5KqPFiRHQsMj23xK6ddnO7KgAf0q8g9qAemvhvYBwHYEwo&num=1&sig=AOD64_0kFH-vqxL95nam2MlkdvACcL7YUA&client=ca-fairfax-stuff_js&adurl=http://www.dressyfrocks.nz/'>Dressy Frock Hire</a><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=L&ai=C7ZYduK_LVqTYK4rH8QWN4InQA8zFqaoJ9LfJgNECwI23ARABIOX-xgpgq-yxheAYyAEBqQLt77gdJIimPqgDAaoE6AFP0PRmsYNTsbFohKUp4z7H6sHbV7COSu9hw7az2XarvhUj9Wdc5WS99VWCYa8XhhxMbT5LgzH6ue_gEPFQxFLDG5bdneyf72zdtPsiYEh4sexTKmG8pWrvJmYlQHn60d8ix1tVwWDGB_n3nwuA_c0uGnDcafXFc43_DrPPusu8Rz83G6x4c5zGraTyzh_K4xFET0jukQ9Q7bpKx42fQjsyylAKyQo8IF_occTimFh7FYiwb7dhLH4YXGdIHFRRfmzedmHwwYqkYQu4RutWYgpLTIIN0tHHl5KqPFiRHQsMj23xK6ddnO7KgAf0q8g9qAemvhvYBwHYEwo&num=1&sig=AOD64_0kFH-vqxL95nam2MlkdvACcL7YUA&client=ca-fairfax-stuff_js&adurl=http://www.dressyfrocks.nz/'>www.dressyfrocks.nz</a>
<p>On trend party dresses, maternity dresses & ball gowns for hire.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>TR's targeted google ads....</p> -
<p>Ben Ryan has always made his thoughts and feelings on the matter very clear to the anti-NZ rugby brigade in the UK. Maybe he has a point, maybe the way it's gone about is very wild wild west and not in the best interest of the players.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The above article doesn't look so much like poaching, more like clubs not treating the players well. I have no qualms with that.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="560219" data-time="1456193818">
<div>
<p>TR's targeted google ads....</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>no idea how that works, cos both the kids iPads and Mrs TR use my logins via Google and it doesn't come up with all the random shite they search on (would be all UK clothing stores for the wife, Frozen anything for my daughter and gaming for TR Jnr) and certainly doesn't come up with anything I have searched recently!</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p><strong>"They get them doing manual labour on a low wage, maybe give them some pocket money to play for their clubs, and they're dangling that carrot of a professional contract at ITM Cup level ... when they know that these contracts aren't going to be eligible to them unless they are eligible for New Zealand rugby."</strong></p>
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Pretty sure that is wrong....</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="560247" data-time="1456198600"><br><div>
<p><strong>They get them doing manual labour on a low wage</strong></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Pretty shitty to give guys who have low skills, low-skilled jobs.</p>
<p>They should be given jobs as accountants or nurses or hedge fund managers, obviously.</p> -
<p>Real journalism is dead in NZ, so why try searching for facts and actually find an Island player who can show the evidence of exploitation by a NZ club if you can just write down a "story" from an anti-NZ coach?</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="560243" data-time="1456198124">
<div>
<p>Ben Ryan has always made his thoughts and feelings on the matter very clear to the anti-NZ rugby brigade in the UK. Maybe he has a point, maybe the way it's gone about is very wild wild west and not in the best interest of the players.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The above article doesn't look so much like poaching, more like clubs not treating the players well. I have no qualms with that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>If we re-instituted the TSF awards I would nominate you for Knight in Shining Armour of the 'poaching accusers' - you even defended that ESPN troll until you engaged him on twitter. ;)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="560247" data-time="1456198600">
<div>
<p>no idea how that works, cos both the kids iPads and Mrs TR use my logins via Google and it doesn't come up with all the random shite they search on (would be all UK clothing stores for the wife, Frozen anything for my daughter and gaming for TR Jnr) and certainly doesn't come up with anything I have searched recently!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Pretty sure that is wrong....</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Agree that it's wrong, not with your claims trying to obscure your shopping habits, as there is no obligation for players to be NZ eligible in the NPC.</p> -
<p>That's an old article and was in the SST with the other article about club teams using PI players. Perhaps we should get the NZ Army to employ them. :fishing:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Something doesn't look right with a pasty, white ginga coaching Fiji. </p> -
<p>Surely the only real talking point here is whether his accusations are true or not. If true the it needs to be addressed. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>He did mention Aussie and European clubs too but does seem to have an anti NZ bias, but he needs to back all this up with some hard evidence.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>
<strong>"They get them doing manual labour on a low wage, maybe give them some pocket money to play for their clubs, and they're dangling that carrot of a professional contract at ITM Cup level ... when they know that these contracts aren't going to be eligible to them unless they are eligible for New Zealand rugby."</strong><br></p></blockquote>
<br>
That's demonstrably false - Otago have a Japanese halfback and the Makos had a South African lock last year, just to name a few. -
<p>Northland have a Tongan loose forward, in fact in the 2014 ITM Cup I think we had 4 of last years Tongan RWC players in our team</p>
-
An inaccurate poaching article? There's a first time for everything i guess
-
<p>These sorts of weird articls always seem to be centred around Fiji. when Pio Bosco Tikisuva was in charge of the union they used to appear pretty regularly on their website Teivovo. Some of them were pretty much libellous, occasionally they were funny. Like the Fijian no8 who was playing over here and put on so much weight they moved him to the front row, his KFC addiction was the fault of the great satan aka the NZRU.</p>
-
Gloucester's Ruan Ackermann considers playing for England
News, features and match reports from The Rugby Paper, the UK-based newspaper which specialises in rugby union at all levels ready for your viewing every Sunday of the year.
South Africa native Ruan Ackermann has admitted he is open to exploring the possibility of representing England in international colours having joined Gloucester in the summer. The number 8 could squeeze himself into contention for the Red Rose shortly before World Rugby alters the residency rule in 2020 from three years to five years in order to qualify. “I’m still young so I can always go back (to South Africa),” the 21-year-old told Kwese Sports. “I can give myself a fair shot here [in England] and you never know, hopefully it goes well and you can create yourself an option of playing for England as well.” Ackermann joined his father, Johan, in leaving the Lions to move to Kingsholm at the conclusion of the Super Rugby season earlier in the year, and the former South Africa A representative said England would be a welcome alternative should the Springboks leave him in the dark.shortly before World Rugby alters the residency rule in 2020 from three years to five years .....
the former South Africa A representative .....
Seems both Ruan and the Journos at the Rugby Paper need to read up on the eligibility rules.
After representing South Africa A the only way he can qualify for another country is via the Olympic loophole, for which he would need UK citizenship, not just the 3 year residency.
Just a crappy filler article anyway, I assume.
-
the former South Africa A representative said England would be a welcome alternative should the Springboks leave him in the dark.
So if SA decide he isn't up to it, he'll spit the dummy and throw himself at Eddies feet?
Sorry state of affairs really.
-
he's only 21 too
-
The Rugbypaper may not be the original source, may just be repeating from a different source, i don't know,.
But this article http://kwese.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/21250757/ruan-ackermann-keen-give-england-option-gloucester-stay
says;
However, despite being included in a Springboks training squad and playing for South Africa A he is not tied to the country of his birth.Not sure how that could be. Unless South Africa A didn't play another country's designated A team ?
I think SA A played a series v France A this year?
F&ck knows.
-
@rapido
Point is, it would seem he wants to play for SA first but is happy to chuck his lot in with England if SA don't want him...be surprised if he grew up wanting to wear the English Rose, shame to give up on your dream so quickly. -
@taniwharugby Totally opportunistic and mercenary. SA and England should tell him to fuck off. This stuff really fucks me off.
-
If his South Africa A appearances were against an opposition that wasn't that nation's designated A team then he's still good. And so long as he's resident in his new nation by 31 December 2017 then he'll only need to serve 3 years of eligibility as the five-year rule comes into effect on 1 January 2020.
-
So how do you rate the French Barbarians team, now that they don't field an A team?
-
@wurzel said in Bit of poaching stuff...:
If his South Africa A appearances were against an opposition that wasn't that nation's designated A team then he's still good. And so long as he's resident in his new nation by 31 December 2017 then he'll only need to serve 3 years of eligibility as the five-year rule comes into effect on 1 January 2020.
It doesn't have to be a country's designated A team. It must be either the the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a country.
This is the relevant bit of Regulation 8 of the World Rugby Handbook:
8.3 For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if: (a) He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union (or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Union’s senior or next senior Touring Squad during a World Rugby approved International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority;I have no idea whether South Africa 'A' is officially that second national team. They may not be, just like NZ 'A' never was (the Junior All Blacks are). But in any case, until the 1st of July, the opponent team - the French Barbarians - weren't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union.
Interestingly, only about 10 days ago, the French Rugby Union decided to designate the French Barbarians as its next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. The reason for this seemed to be that they could force clubs to release players for this team, without it costing the players annual leave days. The decision was also, that this would retrospectively apply from the date of 1 July (so that's after the June tests).
-
My apologies for doubting the knowledge of Ruan and rugby journos at therubypaper.
Seems they know their poaching shit.
-
POSTED ON 23/10/17
THE FRENCH BARBARIANS BECOME A NATIONAL TEAM
From this season 2017-2018, the team of "French Barbarians" is integrated into the sports policy of the FFR as the second National Team.
