Ireland v Scotland
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The selection subplot to Finn Russell getting axed by Scotland
Undoubtedly the biggest selection story ahead of the finale of the 2022 Six Nations on Saturday weekend has been the axing of Finn Russell.
Ireland
15 Hugo Keenan, 14 Mack Hansen, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 James Lowe, 10 Johnny Sexton (c), 9 Jamison Gibson-Park, 8 Jack Conan, 7 Josh van der Flier, 6 Caelan Doris, 5 Iain Henderson, 4 Tadhg Beirne, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Dan Sheehan, 1 Cian Healy
Reserves: 16 Rob Herring, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Finlay Bealham, 19 Kieran Treadwell, 20 Peter O’Mahony, 21 Conor Murray, 22 Joey Carbery, 23 Robbie Henshaw
Scotland
15 Stuart Hogg (c), 14 Darcy Graham, 13 Chris Harris, 12 Sam Johnson, 11 Kyle Steyn, 10 Blair Kinghorn, 9 Ali Price, 8 Matt Fagerson, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Rory Darge, 5 Grant Gilchrist, 4 Jonny Gray, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 George Turner, 1 Pierre Schoeman
Reserves: 16 Fraser Brown, 17 Allan Dell, 18 WP Nel, 19 Sam Skinner, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Ben White, 22 Finn Russell, 23 Mark Bennett
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Crazy Kinghorn isn’t even a ten? Where’s Hastings?
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Scotland will be aiming to finish the season on a high. The confidence to bench a player like Russell definitely reflects this.
I think a 60 point margin is definitely on the cards.
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@mn5 said in Ireland v Scotland:
Scotland will be aiming to finish the season on a high.
I think a 60 point margin is definitely on the cards.
Yeah seems about right, though Ireland only scored 4 tries against 14 man Eng, so maybe they’ll only win by 40 ish. But 40-60 to Ireland does seem right
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Why is this a surprise?
Russell has been 5/10 at best
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@mikethesnow russel at 5/10 is better than most after 10s
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@mikethesnow said in Ireland v Scotland:
Why is this a surprise?
Russell has been 5/10 at best
Kinghorn is the surprise. Hastings a surer bet imo
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@yeahtheboys said in Ireland v Scotland:
@mikethesnow russel at 5/10 is better than most after 10s
Obviously not, as rank outsider Kinghorn is preferred
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14-5 HT. Scotland starting well, lots of possession. Ireland looking a bit more likely to score when they have the ball.
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Hogg is SO ball greedy. 3 on 1 and goes himself. Try wouldn’t have counted anyway.
Would have counted after all. So poor.
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Brilliant refereeing from Barnes
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@the-irishman said in Ireland v Scotland:
Brilliant refereeing from Barnes
He’s having a good game. Standing up to his Aussie tmo
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Bonus point win for Ireland in what was not a great performance again, but it seems not to matter, 26-5. Over to France now to decide the championship. Come on England!!
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Worst ireland performance in a long time but still managed to just about get the bonus point. Not a great 6 nations for the Scots.
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@billy-tell said in Ireland v Scotland:
@the-irishman said in Ireland v Scotland:
Brilliant refereeing from Barnes
He’s having a good game. Standing up to his Aussie tmo
Here is Nigel Owens' comments about the reliance on/use of TMOs
"Please no" - RFU back controversial new red card law - Page 3 of 4 - Ruck
#3. Less TMO moving forward Owens wrote: “We should aim for good performances that facilitate good games. In my opinion, perfect has become the enemy of the good because people…
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@profitius said in Ireland v Scotland:
Worst ireland performance in a long time but still managed to just about get the bonus point. Not a great 6 nations for the Scots•
But. But. It’s their year.
Again.
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@profitius said in Ireland v Scotland:
Worst ireland performance in a long time but still managed to just about get the bonus point. Not a great 6 nations for the Scots.
Don’t come here with your bullshit talk @profitius the mighty Scots lit up the tournament by beating England which basically made them the envy of the whole Six nations.
Anything else was a bonus, they’ll still be singing on the streets of Edinburgh after that performance.
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By my recollection this win over the Scots makes Ireland the Triple Crown Winners.
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Scotland's lack of brain can be summed by the scrum penalty in the 67th minute.
Just outside their attacking 22.
Win the penalty.
Reserve scrum half quick tap. 🙄
Coach killer. -
Ireland aren't all that from my viewing of their last few games. Scots were about as headless as you get overnight. They struggled to put away a 14-man England, and were rubbish against Italy despite the overwhelming advantage they had in numbers.
France took them apart, and Wales were poo in that game.
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@nta said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland aren't all that from my viewing of their last few games. Scots were about as headless as you get overnight. They struggled to put away a 14-man England, and were rubbish against Italy despite the overwhelming advantage they had in numbers.
France took them apart, and Wales were poo in that game.
France took them apart? Wow! Ireland pushed France right to the end, in Paris btw, and could have won that game with better game management. No team has been that close to beating France on their home soil recently so you are way off the mark with that throwaway comment. As for struggling to beat 14 man England? Look at how Wales struggled to beat 14 man Ireland in Cardiff last year. England were bouyed by the frantic home crowd and manned up for the Irish game. Most teams would struggle to beat a 14 man England in Twickenham, they don't just roll over and die ffs.
Ireland haven't played their best this tournament but still outscored everyone in tries in every game, inc France. 24 tries compared to 17 for France and the rest not even close. That's not playing well. Imagine what they can do when they do play well....
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@the-irishman said in Ireland v Scotland:
@nta said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland aren't all that from my viewing of their last few games. Scots were about as headless as you get overnight. They struggled to put away a 14-man England, and were rubbish against Italy despite the overwhelming advantage they had in numbers.
France took them apart, and Wales were poo in that game.
Ireland pushed France right to the end, in Paris btw
The only reason you were that close: France knew they could take the easy points in the first half from your poor scrum and ruck work, so they did. They dropped a fair bit of ball in that first quarter, too. The 19-7 score at halftime from a try and 2 ruck + 2 scrum penalties in kickable range could easily have been 30-7, if they opted to go to the line. Shortly after halftime it's 22-7 as their kicker drains one from 45m on the angle. Easy money.
Ireland showed 5 minutes of excellence from minutes 45-50, scoring twice through individual efforts to stay in touch (JGP's snipe, and the maul that ?Van Der Flier? scored from that had disintegrated - credit to him for situational awareness). France pulled away yet again and held it, scoring off Ireland's poor ruck work again. The game Ireland wanted to play - retain ball, piggyback downfield off penalties, score points - was almost completely stunted by France pressuring the right breakdowns and Ireland not securing them.
No doubt if Ireland won by 6 points they'd be talking themslves right up. Fact is they lost on the scoreboard and lost around the park. A couple of streaky tries in Paris, and a very average walloping a 13- or 12-man Italy won't change that. Let's be honest: you should have cruised past 70 points in that game.
@the-irishman said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland haven't played their best this tournament but still outscored everyone in tries in every game, inc France.
And when they change the competition rules to make tries the only thing that matters, we can retrospectively award Ireland the 6N this year, I guess?
You can be overly optimistic about the form of your team - we've all been there - but I'm looking at the basics on show against a fairly young France, and Ireland did not perform well at all.
Ireland were far better against NZ in November, and this begs the question: have Ireland once again peaked between RWC?
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@nta said in Ireland v Scotland:
@the-irishman said in Ireland v Scotland:
@nta said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland aren't all that from my viewing of their last few games. Scots were about as headless as you get overnight. They struggled to put away a 14-man England, and were rubbish against Italy despite the overwhelming advantage they had in numbers.
France took them apart, and Wales were poo in that game.
Ireland pushed France right to the end, in Paris btw
The only reason you were that close: France knew they could take the easy points in the first half from your poor scrum and ruck work, so they did. They dropped a fair bit of ball in that first quarter, too. The 19-7 score at halftime from a try and 2 ruck + 2 scrum penalties in kickable range could easily have been 30-7, if they opted to go to the line. Shortly after halftime it's 22-7 as their kicker drains one from 45m on the angle. Easy money.
Ireland showed 5 minutes of excellence from minutes 45-50, scoring twice through individual efforts to stay in touch (JGP's snipe, and the maul that ?Van Der Flier? scored from that had disintegrated - credit to him for situational awareness). France pulled away yet again and held it, scoring off Ireland's poor ruck work again. The game Ireland wanted to play - retain ball, piggyback downfield off penalties, score points - was almost completely stunted by France pressuring the right breakdowns and Ireland not securing them.
No doubt if Ireland won by 6 points they'd be talking themslves right up. Fact is they lost on the scoreboard and lost around the park. A couple of streaky tries in Paris, and a very average walloping a 13- or 12-man Italy won't change that. Let's be honest: you should have cruised past 70 points in that game.
@the-irishman said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland haven't played their best this tournament but still outscored everyone in tries in every game, inc France.
And when they change the competition rules to make tries the only thing that matters, we can retrospectively award Ireland the 6N this year, I guess?
You can be overly optimistic about the form of your team - we've all been there - but I'm looking at the basics on show against a fairly young France, and Ireland did not perform well at all.
Ireland were far better against NZ in November, and this begs the question: have Ireland once again peaked between RWC?
Ireland have not played well in this tournament true but the France match was close. The French were out on their feet in the last 20 and it was only a few Irish mistakes that kept the pressure off them.
Have ireland peaked? Well it was only the last game against England in the 2021 6 nations that ireland decided to change the style of play after years of Schmidtball. About a year ago this weekend. So there is plenty of room for improvement.
I don't see ireland having a good world cup due to the draw, match scheduling and weak squad when a few players get injured. After the world cup will be a different story. I'm expecting a clean sweep of many older players and the U20s just won a grand slam and only lost twice since 2018 so those players are ready to go. A few might be added next season but I'd say if they're not on the NZ tour it'll be after the world cup. Farrell likes to pick the same players as much as possible.
So in short, the first choice team is good but a few injuries and the level drops off.
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@profitius said in Ireland v Scotland:
I'm expecting a clean sweep of many older players and the U20s just won a grand slam and only lost twice since 2018 so those players are ready to go. A few might be added next season but I'd say if they're not on the NZ tour it'll be after the world cup. Farrell likes to pick the same players as much as possible.
Consistency is great, with the other edge of that sword being a lack of opportunity for the rest e.g. Sexton's place and importance to the retention game plan. Reminds me a bit of Gregan and Larkham at the Wallabies.
Having the core U20 squad come through will be good as long as room is made for those who develop late or weren't in the system from an early age. See it occasionally in Australia as well: Scott Fardy was exactly the kind of blindside we needed at the time, but went overseas because he wasn't on The Golden Pathway.
The third leg of the stool is imports, and the 5 year residency rule might slow the available talent pool in that regard. It'll be interesting to watch.
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@nta The Irish also have the luxury of scooping up all those with Irish grandparents from other areas of the world. Being a catholic nation I suspect there could be innumerable numbers of those. My own nephew is one of those who learnt his trade in Sydney but now using his Irish citizenship gained through his grandfather to pad out one of the United Championship squads and he only made it to the NRC level in Aust!
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@higgins said in Ireland v Scotland:
he only made it to the NRC level in Aust!
And that is a problem with our own development systems: if you're not on The Golden Pathway, your chance of getting into pro rugby in Australia is very limited.
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@nta Ah that explains it as my nephew was not from one of the "traditional" schools although he did go through the Sydney Uni club once he was out of school.
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@higgins said in Ireland v Scotland:
@nta Ah that explains it as my nephew was not from one of the "traditional" schools although he did go through the Sydney Uni club once he was out of school.
Uni? Surprised he's not a Waratah then
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@nta I know he has been somewhat injury prone over the last five seasons so that, plus the high school situation, probably counted against him. We always knew that come what may his Irishness would always make it easy for him to secure a contract as a local player up north, even if it is predominantly a squad member rather than a match day 23 member. I have heard about the politics involved in selections in Australia too by the way!
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@nta said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland aren't all that from my viewing of their last few games. Scots were about as headless as you get overnight. They struggled to put away a 14-man England, and were rubbish against Italy despite the overwhelming advantage they had in numbers.
France took them apart, and Wales were poo in that game.
To play dickhead's advocate, the common denominator in bringing teams down to a shit level? Sounds like they're the equivalent of Argentina circa 2015.
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@nta said in Ireland v Scotland:
Ireland aren't all that from my viewing of their last few games. Scots were about as headless as you get overnight. They struggled to put away a 14-man England, and were rubbish against Italy despite the overwhelming advantage they had in numbers.
France took them apart, and Wales were poo in that game.
They’re good against Australia though
