Socialism!
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@reprobate said in Socialism!:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Socialism!:
This quote is gold:
The difference between Nazis and Communists is that when you mention the horrors of Naziism no one ever says "Yeah, but true Naziism has never really been tried.
You fellas love your quotes eh?
The difference is that communism is a system based on an ideal of equality, whereas Naziism is based on an ideal of the exact opposite, and in fact genocide.
True communism cannot exist, because of the moral hazard involved. It's a disastrous proven failure that had led to despotism that has cost a vast number of lives - but you can be a well meaning idiot who supports the ideal, Naziism not so much.
Or:
Wouldn't it be great if everyone was equal?
Wouldn't it be great if all the Jews were dead?Complete and utter bullshit. Both systems are based on the fact it is ok to murder people who you don't see fitting into your society.
Nazis murdered Jews, blacks etc
Communists murdered Capitalists, farmers, ethnic groups, royalty and anyone else who did not fall into communist line .Why have 100 million (at the least) been murdered under communism? Because they didn't fit into the communist model.. EXACTLY the same as Nazi murder of people that didn't fit into the society they wanted.
Communism wants equality alright.. for those left alive and who have bowed the head and given up free thought and free will. Equality of evil.Always makes me laugh when people describe Communism as a perfect system let down by imperfect people. That is bullshit. It is a fucking useless system because it isnt rooted in any kind of reality. That isn't 'peoples' fault' it is the systems fault. I could come up with a perfect capitalist system as well.. and claim capitalism is perfect. Doesnt mean squat when it is based on a false notion of people behaving in exactly the same manner.
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@jegga said in Socialism!:
It's bizarre after all that happened in the 20th century to see people defending communism or suggesting it just wasn't implemented correctly .
Ffs they had enough chances globally to try and get it right.Time is a wonderful amnesic drug. Plenty of time and all of the spotty BA students can sit in the uni union cafe and wax lyrical about the idea of the socialist utopia
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@No-Quarter said in Socialism!:
Sorry didn't realise it would ask for a login. When I click the link from the twitter app it lets me read the whole thing.
Same. Really weird. It's a paywall via website but you can read 4 free via twitter on my tablet.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Socialism!:
Complete and utter bullshit. Both systems are based on the fact it is ok to murder people who you don't see fitting into your society.
Nazis murdered Jews, blacks etc
Communists murdered Capitalists, farmers, ethnic groups, royalty and anyone else who did not fall into communist linYou're confusing outcome with the underlying theory.
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@antipodean said in Socialism!:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Socialism!:
Complete and utter bullshit. Both systems are based on the fact it is ok to murder people who you don't see fitting into your society.
Nazis murdered Jews, blacks etc
Communists murdered Capitalists, farmers, ethnic groups, royalty and anyone else who did not fall into communist linYou're confusing outcome with the underlying theory.
No I am not. The underlying theory of both is a pure society fit for model of system. Dont fit?
You die. The definition of pure is just different.But always happy to learn.. how about you show me how the communist theory has a" live and let live " attitude towards people who want to
be superior to others and not share what they have. -
@Salacious-Crumb said in Socialism!:
@No-Quarter said in Socialism!:
Sorry didn't realise it would ask for a login. When I click the link from the twitter app it lets me read the whole thing.
Same. Really weird. It's a paywall via website but you can read 4 free via twitter on my tablet.
Sharing metrics in the link on Twitter?
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Communism necessitates the destruction of an entire economic system and individual rights. It is not possible without a period of anarchy and massive amounts of death and destruction, not to mention the complete marginalisation or liquidation of anyone who is in opposition. There is absolutely nothing noble about that. Followers of communism are not well-meaning idyllists with their hearts in the right place. The only people who call themselves communists are either totalitarians, losers or complete fucking idiots. Funnily enough the exact same people who seem to be attracted a certain other totalitarian creed.....
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@reprobate said in Socialism!:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Socialism!:
This quote is gold:
The difference between Nazis and Communists is that when you mention the horrors of Naziism no one ever says "Yeah, but true Naziism has never really been tried.
You fellas love your quotes eh?
The difference is that communism is a system based on an ideal of equality, whereas Naziism is based on an ideal of the exact opposite, and in fact genocide.
True communism cannot exist, because of the moral hazard involved. It's a disastrous proven failure that had led to despotism that has cost a vast number of lives - but you can be a well meaning idiot who supports the ideal, Naziism not so much.
Or:
Wouldn't it be great if everyone was equal?
Wouldn't it be great if all the Jews were dead?Interesting argument, though one I strongly disagree with. Both ideologies are equally awful, and both are based on the ideal of wiping out anyone that doesn't conform.
When people talk about "equality" as something we should aspire too they have to be completely detached from reality to think it represents anything close to a good or moral idea. It's completely flawed (the world is unequal by nature, duh), but also immoral.
It basically boils down to having two people in a room, one with $5 and the other with $15. That's unequal, so to make it fair we have to steal $5 from the person with $15 and give it to the person with $5. That (stealing) is fundamentally immoral - there's no way you can argue otherwise.
Here's an interesting quote - can you guess who said this? (hint: he didn't like Jews).
"We are socialists, we are the enemy of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions".
Your viewpoint does point to a wider issue in western society though - that we are doing a good job teaching our youth about how devastatingly bad the Nazi ideology was, but we are not doing the same for the Communism. Which is nuts when you consider that Communism has been far more destructive, over a much longer period of time, and to many more countries.
And that makes it so much more dangerous.
There's fuck all people identifying as a Nazi or a white supremacist today. Seriously, the KKK has 5000 members in the States. That's 0.002% of the population, and they are a laughing stock. The only reason they've got any coverage lately is because certain outlets (like CNN) want to conflate Trump supporters with being racist, so need to give the KKK some validity which they don't have.
Marxist ideas on the other hand, do have the potential to spread, and in fact already are. "Equality" has made a comeback via ideologues in Universities through Post Modernism (everything is a social construct) and Identity Politics (race, gender, sexuality etc. combined with power). It's unbelievably toxic, it has infected Left wing politics, and is the number one reason we have such a polarizing political environment right now.
And now we have groups like Antifa, who are basically carbon copies of Hitler's people, violently attacking people that disagree with them with the stated aim of tearing down the capitalist system. What they are doing right now is infinitely more dangerous than any white supremacist group, because they actually have support from a decent portion of people on the left who have bought into Identity Politics, and also because history shows this ideology is far more persuasive and destructive than anything we have seen.
I laugh at the self proclaimed alt-right/Nazis. They're a joke. But the communists really do concern me.
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@No-Quarter said in Socialism!:
@reprobate said in Socialism!:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Socialism!:
This quote is gold:
The difference between Nazis and Communists is that when you mention the horrors of Naziism no one ever says "Yeah, but true Naziism has never really been tried.
You fellas love your quotes eh?
The difference is that communism is a system based on an ideal of equality, whereas Naziism is based on an ideal of the exact opposite, and in fact genocide.
True communism cannot exist, because of the moral hazard involved. It's a disastrous proven failure that had led to despotism that has cost a vast number of lives - but you can be a well meaning idiot who supports the ideal, Naziism not so much.
Or:
Wouldn't it be great if everyone was equal?
Wouldn't it be great if all the Jews were dead?Interesting argument, though one I strongly disagree with. Both ideologies are equally awful, and both are based on the ideal of wiping out anyone that doesn't conform.
When people talk about "equality" as something we should aspire too they have to be completely detached from reality to think it represents anything close to a good or moral idea. It's completely flawed (the world is unequal by nature, duh), but also immoral.
It basically boils down to having two people in a room, one with $5 and the other with $15. That's unequal, so to make it fair we have to steal $5 from the person with $15 and give it to the person with $5. That (stealing) is fundamentally immoral - there's no way you can argue otherwise.
Here's an interesting quote - can you guess who said this? (hint: he didn't like Jews).
"We are socialists, we are the enemy of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions".
Your viewpoint does point to a wider issue in western society though - that we are doing a good job teaching our youth about how devastatingly bad the Nazi ideology was, but we are not doing the same for the Communism. Which is nuts when you consider that Communism has been far more destructive, over a much longer period of time, and to many more countries.
And that makes it so much more dangerous.
There's fuck all people identifying as a Nazi or a white supremacist today. Seriously, the KKK has 5000 members in the States. That's 0.002% of the population, and they are a laughing stock. The only reason they've got any coverage lately is because certain outlets (like CNN) want to conflate Trump supporters with being racist, so need to give the KKK some validity which they don't have.
Marxist ideas on the other hand, do have the potential to spread, and in fact already are. "Equality" has made a comeback via ideologues in Universities through Post Modernism (everything is a social construct) and Identity Politics (race, gender, sexuality etc. combined with power). It's unbelievably toxic, it has infected Left wing politics, and is the number one reason we have such a polarizing political environment right now.
And now we have groups like Antifa, who are basically carbon copies of Hitler's people, violently attacking people that disagree with them with the stated aim of tearing down the capitalist system. What they are doing right now is infinitely more dangerous than any white supremacist group, because they actually have support from a decent portion of people on the left who have bought into Identity Politics, and also because history shows this ideology is far more persuasive and destructive than anything we have seen.
I laugh at the self proclaimed alt-right/Nazis. They're a joke. But the communists really do concern me.
firstly, i haven't defended communism in any way. there is however undeniably a difference between a stated policy of genocide and a stated policy of equality (that people commit murder in the name of). the results may be equally evil, but the means of getting there is not.
i counter your 2 people in a room analogy with another - 2 people, 1 of them has some food - redistribute it or starve one of them? what's the moral choice there? my point being that it isn't absolutes. absolute capitalism does not have a welfare state - no universal health or education.
the communist party of the US has an estimated 5000 members too mate. i think the difference you're seeing is that nobody is prepared to give the KKK any sort of platform, so you don't hear from them. i don't think the commies are in any danger of taking anything over - and i think the only time a group like antifa will get mainstream support of any sort is when they are protesting against nazis.
as i've said previously, a commie walking down the street isn't really going to liberate the means of production and give it to the proleteriat. a nazi walking down the street may decide to intimidate / beat the shit out of someone. i guess arseholes like antifa are changing that equation somewhat.