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@jc I too was a remainer at the time of voting..but you know as it was in the bag and I was otherwise occupied I didn't vote. Avid Brexiteer now though.
Out of interest what are your thoughts on the action of the EU looking to remove Hungary's voting rights for following the will of their people and government in not wanting to take in refugees/economic migrants? It's this sort of thing that really knocked me over to the other side.
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@rembrandt My thoughts are that the European Parliament is a bunch of bullies and the Commission is a stark warning as to what happens when you give bureaucrats unfettered reign. Unfortunately all completely unsurprising, and if the membership was solely about social and political government I’d certainly have voted Leave.
But I thought, and still think, that the chances of manufacturing a deal for the UK that is economically neutral or better in the medium term is close to zero. The hostility of the EU wets was a given, and they intend the way they deal with the UK to serve as a warning to any other would be troublemakers. What they are doing to Hungary seems to me to be just another aspect of the same mindset. Dissent is not an option and they’ll shoot their own balls off rather than concede dissenters might have a point.
At the same time there are powerful interests in the UK that like the social agenda the EU has been driving and if you think they’ll stop pushing it post Brexit your dreaming. The fact is that blaming the EU for some of the regulatory madness was only ever half the story, the other side being that people in authority in the UK have been responsible for plenty of idiocy in their own right. Brexit isn’t going to stop the tendency for those who know what’s best for us to rise and save us from ourselves (not my line, hat tip to Neil Peart 😉).
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@jc said in British Politics:
@rembrandt Oh don’t get me wrong, I love London too. I live there for 3 or 4 months every year and culturally it couldn’t be more different to where I spend the rest of my time. I’m very lucky to be able to do what I do and to be honest much of what I don’t like doesn’t really affect me directly.
But if I’m honest I am one of the privileged, and I don’t have to care about things that have real world consequences for a lot of people. My best friend over there has a son who’s just about to turn 18. He’s not really cut out for uni but has no other way to leverage himself into an unqualified position that will likely have hundreds of applicants. His parents are both conservative, working people (cops), so no family money, he’s white and male, he’s 18. So he’s fucked. I’m sure a recent arrival might not come into contact with people like that and might think everyone’s happy. But they’d be wrong.
Great post JC. Far too often the royal "we" is used when claiming "we've never had it so good" or "we've become so rich" or when invoking "privilege". There is so much projection from people who assume their own personal circumstances must apply to everyone else. There seems to be an acknowledgement of the privileged rich and the needy poor but a complete disregard for the different levels of "middle" that are the backbone of most societies.
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@jc I agree with a lot of that but I guess my perspective is the EU is becoming increasingly worse and completely unwilling to reform. If they are half the problem why not remove them so you only have half a problem left? I think the EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU especially with Trump not a fan of the union and willing to dangle a Free Trade agreement. I'd love to see them threaten a no-deal Brexit and see how quickly the EU then gets back into line.
If you do get a chance have a listen to the interview I posted above, obviously this is from a UKIP perspective but still its pretty worrying how things operate.My bold prediction is that the EU won't exist 15 years from now and you definitely don't want to still be on that ship when it sinks.
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@jc said in British Politics:
@chiefy07 said in British Politics:
A lot of left wing apologists I met try to make it sound like it's all middle aged white people and right wing neo Nazis that voted Brexit or think immigration is out of control. It's most definitely not. I was in a position where I was going to all sorts of different parts of London for work during the Brexit referendum and I always found it interesting hearing peoples thoughts on it.
Well this middle aged white guy voted Remain. And if they have a second referendum I'll probably do so again (even though the idea of a second referendum is retarded). I just don't think unwinding the union is going to solve the problems that the UK has, as many of the Brits seem hellbent on retaining the worst outcomes of EU membership with or without the Europeans. Dollars to donuts the immigration issues that the majority of Leavers wanted to address get reintroduced in nearly identical form as a priority following the exit.
I know you weren't the only one @JC
I didn't vote, as I knew I was moving back to NZ I didn't feel it was my place to vote on something so important for the U.K. I have regretted that ever since as being engaged to a Brit and (hopefully) having kids means either we or kids will likely live there again at some stage in the future.
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@rembrandt said in British Politics:
The upvote vs down vote ratio is telling.
Naturally comments are disabled.
What a total bunch of whinging fuckwits.
Wtf was that Australian gimp doing there?
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@rancid-schnitzel It's sick isn't it?
You stupid racist peasants! You didn't know what you were doing when you voted leave. Listen to us the celebrity elite with our millions of $, we are ever so much more virtuous and smarter than you!
The annoying thing is the middle to upper class and celebs are going to be fine regardless of the vote. They are not representative of those who are currently being ass-raped (at times literally) by the EU and its globalist policies.
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@rembrandt said in British Politics:
....yeah that's exactly what's needed
This is the kind of thing that is extremely worrying. Hate crime laws are rubbish to begin with, that they want to keep expanding them is basically just eroding freedom of speech. That's a very bad path to go down.
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@rembrandt said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel It's sick isn't it?
You stupid racist peasants! You didn't know what you were doing when you voted leave. Listen to us the celebrity elite with our millions of $, we are ever so much more virtuous and smarter than you!
The annoying thing is the middle to upper class and celebs are going to be fine regardless of the vote. They are not representative of those whocurrently being ass-raped (at times literally) by the EU and its globalist policies.
I guess they'll just conveniently forget this:
0_1539738423240_Screenshot_20181017-110543.png
But I guess it's in the true spirit of the EU - if the vote isn't the result you want then keep on voting until it is. What's incredible is that these dickheads actually believe that this condescending bullshit will actually help their cause. -
@rembrandt Why don’t these people think through what they are asking for? Or at least educate themselves a bit.
The exit is on the statute books. If there is no vo te FOR the terms of the deal what do they think will happen? Do they realise that what they would be voting for is Deal or No Deal, not Brexit or No Brexit. So the best they could achieve would be locking in the negotiators to not accepting the terms they’ve negotiated.
Unless of course they want to rerun the original one all over again. Like that won’t cause any social upheaval. But at least it would be “their kind” who are upset, not “our kind”.
Their argument amounts to “Waaaaaah”
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@jc said in British Politics:
@rembrandt Why don’t these people think through what they are asking for? Or at least educate themselves a bit.
The exit is on the statute books. If there is no vo te FOR the terms of the deal what do they think will happen? Do they realise that what they would be voting for is Deal or No Deal, not Brexit or No Brexit. So the best they could achieve would be locking in the negotiators to not accepting the terms they’ve negotiated.
Unless of course they want to rerun the original one all over again. Like that won’t cause any social upheaval. But at least it would be “their kind” who are upset, not “our kind”.
Their argument amounts to “Waaaaaah”
And so we reap the fruits of an ill thought out and poorly campaigned referendum. It really has been a complete clusterfuck.
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@catogrande said in British Politics:
@jc said in British Politics:
@rembrandt Why don’t these people think through what they are asking for? Or at least educate themselves a bit.
The exit is on the statute books. If there is no vo te FOR the terms of the deal what do they think will happen? Do they realise that what they would be voting for is Deal or No Deal, not Brexit or No Brexit. So the best they could achieve would be locking in the negotiators to not accepting the terms they’ve negotiated.
Unless of course they want to rerun the original one all over again. Like that won’t cause any social upheaval. But at least it would be “their kind” who are upset, not “our kind”.
Their argument amounts to “Waaaaaah”
And so we reap the fruits of an ill thought out and poorly campaigned referendum. It really has been a complete clusterfuck.
Just under half were always going to throw the toys out of the cot regardless.
Where it has gone wrong is the fact that May (govt in general?)is fucking useless and a remainer, and the EU are acting like fluffybunnies (which just makes leaving the EU even more sensible).If there is a second referendum the slogans really need ot be simple and honest
'Remain because if we dont the EU will be prize fluffybunnies and bully us until we do exactly what they say and give up all sovereignty""Leave because the EU are prize fluffybunnies and bully us until we do exactly what they say and give up all sovereignty"
Then let the people decide.... again
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@rembrandt said in British Politics:
ITV following BBC's lead on getting the 'correct' sort of job applicant:
Surely you only have to identify as non white to skirt those rules?
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@rembrandt I wonder what % non-white you'd have to be... 51%??
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@paekakboyz I think it might soon be wise for any white person out there to get a dna test and start identifying with anything but the white devil. My current job pushes 'diversity' super hard. There is an entire team on my floor who are so diverse that they don't even need to speak English during meetings. Tranny route is probably a good fail-safe if dna fails!
British Politics