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@MiketheSnow said in Brexit:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
My local MP, Brexit-supporting Sheryl Murray' lost her first husband who died in a fishing accident about 5 years ago.
I've heard she's received cards on the anniversary of his drowning, praising his death and attacking her Brexit stance.
I've no doubt about that.
People are evil.
But this is a message and medium issue.
The medium is Twitter which is public for all to see and the message was unbecoming of a representative of the people.
If any non-MP had written those words in an official capacity whilst working they would have been sacked on the spot.
If anyone with some level of power had written that and they were not a journalist or left leaning politician write that they would be hounded mercilessly till they lost everything
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I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely??? -
I actually think the whole thing last night could (should?) have been prevented by Bercow.
It was an emotive session, which is fine, but as soon as Cox was brought up (by Labour), he should have stopped it. Bringing up arguably the most emotive thing in British Politics of the last 5 years in the middle of the session was never going to start or end well for everybody. He should have stopped it.
You'll note that Labour this morning is calling for Boris Johnson to come to parliament and apologise for his words etc. You'll also note that they are, once again, clearly diverting things from where they should be.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
This is a Labour MP!
Somewhat of a reflection of the bits I saw of yesterday's parliamentary debate.
Good to see some erudite, lucid discussion on resolving the Brexit problem- possibly the most debilitating issue to face the UK in recent times. Glad to see everyone is staying professional and not letting emotion take over and sidetrack them so as to move forward and get on with life as quickly as possible.Or not.
I get why more and more people don't care what the actual outcome is, as long as it is done with.
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If any non-MP had written those words in an official capacity whilst working they would have been sacked on the spot.
Absolutely. Shadow Chancellor McDonnell has publicly called for Tory-ex-Minister Esther McVey to be lynched - he refused to apologise and he's still there.
This stuff gets ingrained and feeds a narrative that people who disagree with you have no compassion or humanity - they become sub-human. You then end up with mainstream newspapers like The Guardian writing editorials disparaging the death of Cameron's son Ivan as the pain he experienced was "privileged pain" and getting loads of up-votes
It's mainly on the Left at the moment - wait until the Right catches up. And that's my concern
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely???I went to Piers Morgan's Twitter account as recommended earlier and he pretty much summed up how I stand and feel about this whole situation
To paraphrase
I voted Remain, I would still vote Remain if there was a second referendum, but I respect the decision to leave so let's get on with it.
I voted Labour in the last GE but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to do the same in the next GE.
To use a dog analogy the opposition are angry, angry small dogs who are barking at everything behind curtains and gates but run when it matters.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
It was an emotive session, which is fine, but as soon as Cox was brought up (by Labour), he should have stopped it.
He probably saw it as an opportunity for BoJo to have fish-heads thrown at him.
You'll note that Labour this morning is calling for Boris Johnson to come to parliament and apologise for his words etc. You'll also note that they are, once again, clearly diverting things from where they should be.
They haven't got much choice as they haven't got a Brexit policy to speak of.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
They haven't got much choice as they haven't got a Brexit policy to speak of.
That's bullshit. Their policy is to get a better Brexit deal then vote against it.
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@MiketheSnow said in Brexit:
To use a dog analogy the opposition are angry, angry small dogs who are barking at everything behind curtains and gates but run when it matters.
There's a danger that the longer this goes on, it will help BoJo in any GE.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely???I'm a remainer. I can't educate you on this, as I agree with you.
You need to find another avenue, I'm afraid. I'm not even sure my left wing sister could help me out here.
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This post is deleted!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
At the end of the day there needs to be a settlement/deal - the idea that another referendum to reverse the result or simply revoking A50 will solve anything is bonkers.
Given the circus which is Westminster there seems no sign of EU offering a deal which could be accepted -- current stance is pretty much NI is the price of Brexit.
So short term choice seems to be extension/GE or No Deal.
After GE if BJ in it's Deal/No Deal. If Labour then wrangling and referendum.
The only deal I could see happening any time soon is NI remaining in EUCM for a transition period (aka time-limited NI Backstop) but EU unlikely to go for this, and if they did it would only be in the days before No Deal was about to occur.
Then they'll be three years plus negotiating a trade deal...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely???The Fixed Term Parliament Act means having to wait a minimum of 5 weeks (25 working days is the wording) for an election. Since the opposition don't want a no-deal Brexit, forcing an election without either a deal or extension is not a goer. If the opposition has a potential PM available, what might happen is that they pass a vote of no confidence in the current government, a new PM is appointed and then succeeds in a vote of confidence, then negotiates an extension or a deal (or both). This was the Labour suggestion, which would then be followed by a referendum.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely???The Fixed Term Parliament Act means having to wait a minimum of 5 weeks (25 working days is the wording) for an election. Since the opposition don't want a no-deal Brexit, forcing an election without either a deal or extension is not a goer. If the opposition has a potential PM available, what might happen is that they pass a vote of no confidence in the current government, a new PM is appointed and then succeeds in a vote of confidence, then negotiates an extension or a deal (or both). This was the Labour suggestion, which would then be followed by a referendum.
Hang on..... I have heard that before but I don't get it.
Don't the opposition now control parliament? And aren't they sitting right now? Don't they make the laws? Why don't they just change the law to make that scenario impossible?And lets assume they just cannot do that due to a lack of unity etc. The optics are bloody terrible. You couldnt make a more gift wrapped situation for Boris to paint this as a parliament that doesnt want to be accountable to the people, or have a mandate form the people.
And isnt this all just a waste of time anyway? Lets assume that everything goes the way the opposition wants.. and they get the extension and pass a law to have a second referendum.. or revoke article 50.
Eventually a GE will be held and it is likely that the Boris would win and just reverse every single one and just take the UK out of the EU.
Everything the commons drafts into law will become meaningless once a GE happens.But thanks for giving your thoughts.
On a sidenote... just as the public is sick to bloody death of the commons antics and buffoonery and petty insults and faux rage form all sides.... isnt Bercow just the very worst speaker? The way he speaks is almost like he is trying to make the commons a laughing stock. Nobody hearing him talk would think oh.. yes he is a man with gravitas in a crisis.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely???The Fixed Term Parliament Act means having to wait a minimum of 5 weeks (25 working days is the wording) for an election. Since the opposition don't want a no-deal Brexit, forcing an election without either a deal or extension is not a goer. If the opposition has a potential PM available, what might happen is that they pass a vote of no confidence in the current government, a new PM is appointed and then succeeds in a vote of confidence, then negotiates an extension or a deal (or both). This was the Labour suggestion, which would then be followed by a referendum.
Hang on..... I have heard that before but I don't get it.
Don't the opposition now control parliament? And aren't they sitting right now? Don't they make the laws? Why don't they just change the law to make that scenario impossible?And lets assume they just cannot do that due to a lack of unity etc. The optics are bloody terrible. You couldnt make a more gift wrapped situation for Boris to paint this as a parliament that doesnt want to be accountable to the people, or have a mandate form the people.
And isnt this all just a waste of time anyway? Lets assume that everything goes the way the opposition wants.. and they get the extension and pass a law to have a second referendum.. or revoke article 50.
Eventually a GE will be held and it is likely that the Boris would win and just reverse every single one and just take the UK out of the EU.
Everything the commons drafts into law will become meaningless once a GE happens.But thanks for giving your thoughts.
On a sidenote... just as the public is sick to bloody death of the commons antics and buffoonery and petty insults and faux rage form all sides.... isnt Bercow just the very worst speaker? The way he speaks is almost like he is trying to make the commons a laughing stock. Nobody hearing him talk would think oh.. yes he is a man with gravitas in a crisis.
The government still controls the order of business. Parliament could change that, and might still do so, but generally has not done much of that because they have little opportunity to do so. It's only really since Johnson became PM that the government splintered and lost control to the current extent, and at least some of that time was spent on the prorogation debacle.
Hard to tell in FPP whether the Conservatives would actually win an election - looks like it currently, but if Brexit is on the table and Farage splinters a stack of Brexit votes away from the Conservatives, the Conservatives could easily come second.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
I think I need a remainer to educate me on some if this because my bias must be blinding me...
How the hell do opposition parties think it looks to call out the govt as evil, incompetent, corrupt etc... Whilst at same time refusing the opportunity to fight an election to defeat them . The optics are horrific surely???The Fixed Term Parliament Act means having to wait a minimum of 5 weeks (25 working days is the wording) for an election. Since the opposition don't want a no-deal Brexit, forcing an election without either a deal or extension is not a goer. If the opposition has a potential PM available, what might happen is that they pass a vote of no confidence in the current government, a new PM is appointed and then succeeds in a vote of confidence, then negotiates an extension or a deal (or both). This was the Labour suggestion, which would then be followed by a referendum.
Hang on..... I have heard that before but I don't get it.
Don't the opposition now control parliament? And aren't they sitting right now? Don't they make the laws? Why don't they just change the law to make that scenario impossible?And lets assume they just cannot do that due to a lack of unity etc. The optics are bloody terrible. You couldnt make a more gift wrapped situation for Boris to paint this as a parliament that doesnt want to be accountable to the people, or have a mandate form the people.
And isnt this all just a waste of time anyway? Lets assume that everything goes the way the opposition wants.. and they get the extension and pass a law to have a second referendum.. or revoke article 50.
Eventually a GE will be held and it is likely that the Boris would win and just reverse every single one and just take the UK out of the EU.
Everything the commons drafts into law will become meaningless once a GE happens.But thanks for giving your thoughts.
On a sidenote... just as the public is sick to bloody death of the commons antics and buffoonery and petty insults and faux rage form all sides.... isnt Bercow just the very worst speaker? The way he speaks is almost like he is trying to make the commons a laughing stock. Nobody hearing him talk would think oh.. yes he is a man with gravitas in a crisis.
The government still controls the order of business. Parliament could change that, and might still do so, but generally has not done much of that because they have little opportunity to do so. It's only really since Johnson became PM that the government splintered and lost control to the current extent, and at least some of that time was spent on the prorogation debacle.
Hard to tell in FPP whether the Conservatives would actually win an election - looks like it currently, but if Brexit is on the table and Farage splinters a stack of Brexit votes away from the Conservatives, the Conservatives could easily come second.
Dont agree with your first point at all. The Speaker has proven to be a hardcore remianer who is not remotely afraid to break convention and let remainers do whatever they like whendver they like, they could easily get a chance to vote on whatver they want. The opposition own parliament, they own the chaos.
Your second point is valid, but I just work on the assumption that the Brexit party will fade or help Boris, they dont want power, they want Brexit.
No the same on the reain side where the Greens , LIb dems and labour wouldnt open a door for each in an election campaign let alone help each other. -
The EU want a deal and there are noises that the Backstop is now negotiable - they would be worried by a Singapore-style economy offshore of Europe. (Why build cars in France when you can build them in the UK, pay less tax and export them to the US facing lower tariffs?)
.A GE and win for BoJo would, I think, cement that deal. Another hung parliament would be a disaster all round.
There have been comments that the EU will do a deal and refuse an extension if the HoC rejects the deal . That reduces the risk of either a BoJo-led No Deal UK or another hung Parliament and years of this crap.
Brexit