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@Godder said in Coronavirus - Australia:
I'm a lefty and unionist, but like democracy, capitalism works better than any other system we've tried. My interest is in making capitalism and the economy for people in it, not the other way around. Well-regulated capitalism is a powerful tool for raising living standards. Poorly-regulated or unregulated capitalism will probably do still do that, but not nearly as well.
I'm not convinced governments are as good at profitable capitalism as the private sector. They are best to keep out of the way, minimise red tape but try to keep companies acting responsibly, and allow things to grow with some regulation, and competently and efficiently take their tax cut of the growing pie and spend it wisely
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Generations of Australians will be burdened with this. What business that has already closed its doors is going to take back on an employee without customers? Despite the increase in newstart allowance, it's still not enough to cover anyone who earned the median wage in Australia. So now you can't evict a renter for six months for non-payment. So are the banks going to take the hit? Which means super funds, which means some of them are going to need to become more liquid to meet obligations to retirees. Which devalues assets...
And the government seems to think that there'll be a rebound, oblivious to the fact that in a services economy there's no V shape rebound. People don't consume services that they missed out on. There'll be no one getting their lawn mowed 10 times in the first week or drinking 1000 cups of coffee because they would otherwise have consumed those services. A lot of those companies operate on thin margins and Australians are generally heavily indebted.
So if the government wants to absorb those costs, it simply means succeeding generations will pay. An increasingly heavy price.
Not agreeing or disagreeing - but what's the alternative?
What would you do? -
just left the house for the first time since Friday. It's very quiet out there. There was one other person in the office. People seem to be, where they can, doing as asked. I'm kinda impressed.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
just left the house for the first time since Friday. It's very quiet out there. There was one other person in the office. People seem to be, where they can, doing as asked. I'm kinda impressed.
From what I've glimpsed here, practically everyone is doing a great job. You'd just never know it from the curtain twitchers on Facebook breathlessly posting the cars per hour...
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@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Also we had another reduction of new NSW cases, with 114 recorded yesterday.
Fairly good couple of days nationally, being single digit percentage growth. Longer term chart heading negative on trend for case growth percentage, and the general curve is starting to nose over.
We might have half a rugby season after all!
Once cases start to drop and restrictions are eased, won't cases just start rising again?
I don't get how this ever ends. -
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Australia:
You'd just never know it from the curtain twitchers on Facebook breathlessly posting the cars per hour...
yeah we had someone post on our FB Community page yesterday, starte doff with "I dont know how many people live on Pipiwai Road, but there was x amount of cars on it yesterday..."
well, my road is only 53km long, and she lives about 6km from the town end of it, so I expect quite a few live out that way will travel past for work/shopping...
for the most part, I think the vast majority are doing thier bit.
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@Frank said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Also we had another reduction of new NSW cases, with 114 recorded yesterday.
Fairly good couple of days nationally, being single digit percentage growth. Longer term chart heading negative on trend for case growth percentage, and the general curve is starting to nose over.
We might have half a rugby season after all!
Once cases start to drop and restrictions are eased, won't cases just start rising again?
I don't get how this ever ends.I'm guessing/hoping;
- herd immunity/exposure slowly via the curve flattening efforts
- Antibody tests
- Eventual rapid/instant Covid-19 tests widely available before people get on a plane etc
- eventual vaccine
Otherwise toast in the interim.
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@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@Frank said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Also we had another reduction of new NSW cases, with 114 recorded yesterday.
Fairly good couple of days nationally, being single digit percentage growth. Longer term chart heading negative on trend for case growth percentage, and the general curve is starting to nose over.
We might have half a rugby season after all!
Once cases start to drop and restrictions are eased, won't cases just start rising again?
I don't get how this ever ends.I'm guessing/hoping;
- herd immunity/exposure slowly via the curve flattening efforts
- Antibody tests
- Eventual rapid/instant Covid-19 tests widely available before people get on a plane etc
- eventual vaccine
Otherwise toast in the interim.
I agree. We are all fighting a rearguard action right now. Just trying to save as many as possible to win the war later
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@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Because as an electorate we don't force them too.
I'm interested to hear how that can be achieved, having ranted about it earlier. The candidates we're given are chosen from a party system that doesn't seem to always reward excellence, so the choices we're given from the majors are suitably mediocre.
Do we need to vote Green or Independent to make a change? Not sure One Nation has much to offer but more grift.
Independent. One cycle to get rid of the professional party apparatchik. The policy stasis alone would be of benefit to Australians.
Greens can't be permitted to govern unless you want the current economic status to be the norm.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Because as an electorate we don't force them too.
I'm interested to hear how that can be achieved, having ranted about it earlier. The candidates we're given are chosen from a party system that doesn't seem to always reward excellence, so the choices we're given from the majors are suitably mediocre.
Do we need to vote Green or Independent to make a change? Not sure One Nation has much to offer but more grift.
Independent. One cycle to get rid of the professional party apparatchik. The policy stasis alone would be of benefit to Australians.
Greens can't be permitted to govern unless you want the current economic status to be the norm.
that depends on the standard of the independent. We've had a few fucking nutters over the last couple of parliaments.
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@Frank said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Once cases start to drop and restrictions are eased, won't cases just start rising again?
I don't get how this ever ends.I guess that's what they're trying to figure out. It'll probably follow a cycle for a while (months?) until some kind of vaccine can get through trials and into the market.
Typically that sort of thing can take 18 months for clinical trials. Wouldn't be surprised to see that period truncated as they test certain cohorts with a low possibility of adverse reaction.
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@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Once cases start to drop and restrictions are eased, won't cases just start rising again?
I don't get how this ever ends.Perhaps calculated risks should be taken and try to get the vaccine on to the market earlier.
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@Frank said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Generations of Australians will be burdened with this. What business that has already closed its doors is going to take back on an employee without customers? Despite the increase in newstart allowance, it's still not enough to cover anyone who earned the median wage in Australia. So now you can't evict a renter for six months for non-payment. So are the banks going to take the hit? Which means super funds, which means some of them are going to need to become more liquid to meet obligations to retirees. Which devalues assets...
And the government seems to think that there'll be a rebound, oblivious to the fact that in a services economy there's no V shape rebound. People don't consume services that they missed out on. There'll be no one getting their lawn mowed 10 times in the first week or drinking 1000 cups of coffee because they would otherwise have consumed those services. A lot of those companies operate on thin margins and Australians are generally heavily indebted.
So if the government wants to absorb those costs, it simply means succeeding generations will pay. An increasingly heavy price.
Not agreeing or disagreeing - but what's the alternative?
What would you do?Depends on what your question relates to. Do I get to fix it from the beginning?
The issue as I see it and from the statements made by various "experts" means this is an ongoing issue. As a net exporter we're dependent on how the world economy is responding. Which means that everything could be fine here, we spend 15% of GDP increasing our public debt, have double the unemployment rate, relax the restrictions and then find we've got half the export market left.
So the question for me is how quickly can you relax the restrictions once it's evident that we're not going to give Italy and Spain a run for their money.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Because as an electorate we don't force them too.
I'm interested to hear how that can be achieved, having ranted about it earlier. The candidates we're given are chosen from a party system that doesn't seem to always reward excellence, so the choices we're given from the majors are suitably mediocre.
Do we need to vote Green or Independent to make a change? Not sure One Nation has much to offer but more grift.
Independent. One cycle to get rid of the professional party apparatchik. The policy stasis alone would be of benefit to Australians.
Greens can't be permitted to govern unless you want the current economic status to be the norm.
that depends on the standard of the independent. We've had a few fucking nutters over the last couple of parliaments.
We have, but they'd be unable to agree on anything.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Because as an electorate we don't force them too.
I'm interested to hear how that can be achieved, having ranted about it earlier. The candidates we're given are chosen from a party system that doesn't seem to always reward excellence, so the choices we're given from the majors are suitably mediocre.
Do we need to vote Green or Independent to make a change? Not sure One Nation has much to offer but more grift.
Independent. One cycle to get rid of the professional party apparatchik. The policy stasis alone would be of benefit to Australians.
Greens can't be permitted to govern unless you want the current economic status to be the norm.
that depends on the standard of the independent. We've had a few fucking nutters over the last couple of parliaments.
We have, but they'd be unable to agree on anything.
What if the nutters and policy paralysis just drive us back to the majors?
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@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:
Because as an electorate we don't force them too.
I'm interested to hear how that can be achieved, having ranted about it earlier. The candidates we're given are chosen from a party system that doesn't seem to always reward excellence, so the choices we're given from the majors are suitably mediocre.
Do we need to vote Green or Independent to make a change? Not sure One Nation has much to offer but more grift.
Independent. One cycle to get rid of the professional party apparatchik. The policy stasis alone would be of benefit to Australians.
Greens can't be permitted to govern unless you want the current economic status to be the norm.
that depends on the standard of the independent. We've had a few fucking nutters over the last couple of parliaments.
We have, but they'd be unable to agree on anything.
What if the nutters and policy paralysis just drive us back to the majors?
At least we cleaned the house. Better yet we refuse to elect anyone. Northern Ireland and Belgium haven't descended into chaos.
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Getting very political in here!
I'm not sure the majors are so bad that we need to consider the independents or greens as viable alternatives. I would like to see 4yr parliament terms though, and ideally much less leadership spill (maybe the public approval leader ratings need to be under x for y consecutive periods or something before a challenge is possible).
It is absurd that parties spend a year settling in, a year governing, and a year campaigning. It's shit for the party in power, and gives no space for any bipartisanship from the oppo.
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I've just been out and about - had to meet my former minion to swap USB drives and then go to the post office to send wifi modems out to some of our staff who don't have internet access. I had my 'reasonable excuse' ready.
It's probably as busy as it was late last week (before the weekend saw an upswing of busyness). Most of the major chain stores are closed whereas more non chain shops seem to remain open, saw more open barber/hairdresser shops. Lots of people getting foodcourt and takeaway food and coffee.
Most people are following the only groups of two people ... but I saw some groups of two that were actively talking to other groups of two spaced a wee bit further away from them.
So if the NSW state govt want to crack down on non essential trips they're going to need to notify the populace that this is happening.
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As at 6:00am on 1 April 2020, there have been 4,707 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Australia. Of the 4,707 confirmed cases in Australia, 20 have died from COVID-19. More than 250,000 tests have been conducted across Australia.
Still over half of the confirmed cases in Australia were acquired overseas.
Coronavirus - Australia