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@dogmeat Cheers, I am going for food so won't check this for a while, however, most of your points I must note that I disagree with. It's not anecdotal. There are clear short informal trials and the drug process is logical. The prescription amount is safe, and the main side effect given 5 day treatment is low probability compared to the usefulness of the combo for the wider pop., and given those same people with weak heart would die from ARDS anyway, that's relatively pointless.
Again, I note that you've got likes but the things you stated are generalizations that are untrue, but sound nice and reassuring.
Guys, guys. Look deeper. -
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo only 6 until Easter!!
I'm looking at my camping options at present...front yard is flatter and more spacious, but closer to the road, back yard is a bit sloped and the chickens live there....
So many important considerations. You should mull over this one for a few days for sure.
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@Wairau said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat Cheers, I am going for food so won't check this for a while, however, most of your points I must note that I disagree with. It's not anecdotal. There are clear short informal trials and the drug process is logical. The prescription amount is safe, and the main side effect given 5 day treatment is low probability compared to the usefulness of the combo for the wider pop., and given those same people with weak heart would die from ARDS anyway, that's relatively pointless.
Where is the literature on this? Legitimate literature on it.
I only ask as surely you must understand that there would be 100's of cures in the pipeline that aren't approved yet due to the unknown side effects and long term results rather than just the at point in time 'cure'?
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@Wairau said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat Cheers, I am going for food so won't check this for a while, however, most of your points I must note that I disagree with. It's not anecdotal. There are clear short informal trials and the drug process is logical. The prescription amount is safe, and the main side effect given 5 day treatment is low probability compared to the usefulness of the combo for the wider pop., and given those same people with weak heart would die from ARDS anyway, that's relatively pointless.
Again, I note that you've got likes but the things you stated are generalizations that are untrue, but sound nice and reassuring.
Guys, guys. Look deeper.Conspiracy theories are not helpful for anyone, so shelve that look deeper stuff. That's how we end up anti-vaxxers doing their research on Facebook.
Treatments will come in when they are scientifically tested, and proven safe.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
BTW for what it's worth - The Wu Flu / Chinese Flu bullshit is unnecessary IMO - just another tedious attempt to politicise almost everything
Me too. Might as well call it the Yellow Peril thread or something and say what you really feel. I always thought we were better than that
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@Kirwan Bingo I'm as keen as the next person for a cure to be developed for a whole host of personal and professional reasons. I fall into three of the risk factors, I was closing in on retirement and I don't want to have to consider redundancies if I can avoid it.
However the best brains are working on it and if they say this is what is required or the best course of action then I'm not going to second guess them or look for conspiracies by any government, group faction or illuminati.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
BTW for what it's worth - The Wu Flu / Chinese Flu bullshit is unnecessary IMO - just another tedious attempt to politicise almost everything
Me too. Might as well call it the Yellow Peril thread or something and say what you really feel. I always thought we were better than that
I don't think it's that political. We still refer to Spanish Flu for example (also not a hugely fair name). It started in China, or Wuhan, so calling it the WuFu makes perfect sense in the way that language strives to give context and shorter versions of things.
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@Wairau said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
- It works, and has been proven in many cases. But not on long trials of course. And the current WHO trial is testing in an incorrect way
- Other countries are actively using it
- Of course, we all know what hydroxochloroquine is typically used for, but this is a different need, please don't obfuscate....and I listed correctly the 3 drug combo, did you not read that? I never said hydroxychloroquine on its own. duh
btw Chinese govt. indicated it useful in the treatment of SARS in 2005....
This is important.
I also find it interesting that @canefan liked your post, which was pointless, but not mine, which is about solutions.Sure if you know the answers already just take the drugs.
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Logic/maths question.
If the average daily testing has increased, and average new Daily cases is staying roughly the same for the past five days, that’s a decrease in the positive results right?
Rolling average is what 1800 tests per day, but the new cases are staying around 80.
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@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Wairau said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan
I suggest you educate yourself, it has been used in many places on COVID19provide a link where the drug is used in a recognized and researched paper and I'll change my position. But to the best of my knowledge there is no such research available. And no need to get all snippy
I reckon. The conversation was rather civilised for a brief moment.
Why do I think we are about to get an obscure link to this saving drug and then a lot of noise around it.
Nah Stargazer is wrong, there are studies shown it can be effective, and it has now been approved by the FDA in theSttates for use as a treatment.
https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download
Plenty of caveats and it is no wonder cure, but the way the armchair experts on this forum acted like Wairu was a conspiracy nutter for asking about it is rather bullying and ill founded.
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I will call it the Wuhan flu and it isnt political , in fact it is political bullshit to argue that you shouldnt do it.
I also called also German Measles as German Measels, SARS, as SARS, MERS as MERS, Zika as Zika and Ebolo as Ebola./=.... all diseases named after where they originated. But suddenly with this one, upon the Chinese govt instructing the media to not use it, some in the general public have obediently fallen into line with the wishes of the Chinese Communist party. It is pathetic. Grow some testicles and dont let a communist party police your words. -
This is what the letter from the FDA said:
https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download
Chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate are not FDA-approved for treatment of COVID-19. Some versions of chloroquine phosphate are approved by FDA for other indications—for prophylaxis and acute attacks of certain strains of malaria and for the treatment of extraintestinal amebiasis, but the chloroquine phosphate drug product covered by this letter has not been approved. Several versions of hydroxychloroquine sulfate are approved by FDA for prophylaxis of and treatment of malaria, treatment of lupus erythematosus, and treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. The safety profile of these drugs has only been studied for FDA approved indications, not COVID-19.
Based upon limited in-vitro and anecdotal clinical data in case series, chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate are currently recommended for treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in several countries, and a number of national guidelines report incorporating recommendations regarding use of chloroquine phosphate or hydroxychloroquine sulfate in the setting of COVID-19. FDA encourages the conduct and participation in randomized controlled clinical trials that may produce evidence concerning the effectiveness of these products in treating COVID-19. FDA is issuing this EUA to facilitate the availability of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate during the COVID-19 pandemic to treat patients for whom a clinical trial is not available, or participation is not feasible.
Having concluded that the criteria for issuance of this authorization under 564(c) of the Act are met, I am authorizing the emergency use of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate, as described in the Scope of Authorization section of this letter (Section II) for treatment of COVID-19 when clinical trials are not available, or participation is not feasible, subject to the terms of this authorization.
Clinical trial data results, and any information derived from clinical trials, as well as clinical trial results from studies of other investigational medical products to treat COVID-19, will continue to inform this risk benefit assessment.
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@Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
These are drugs with serious side-effects (QT lengthening) and very long half-lives. Evidence of efficacy is extremely limited, and are being prescribed as one of many drugs currently studied in clinical trials, or as an emergency measure.
Some of the side effects are fricking terrible and not as rare as you would like. I sure as eggs would only want to be adminsitered it if I was in serious trouble. But I guess that is kinda thew point. The FDA were freeing up doctors to throw a hail mary that has seememd to work in other cases. It isnt designed to be used as a 'oh you have the wu flu?.. take this and see you in a week'
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback The long half-lifes are pretty bad too, as it could take a long time for the side-effects to stop even if dosing stops.
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@Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
These are drugs with serious side-effects (QT lengthening) and very long half-lives. Evidence of efficacy is extremely limited, and they are being prescribed as one of many drugs currently studied in clinical trials, or as an emergency measure.
So it makes sense that they aren't giving this out willy-nilly to people who catch this virus?
Shit, if I was on deaths door and they said chlorine gas could cure me, I would prolly take it.
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@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So it makes sense that they aren't giving this out willy-nilly to people who catch this virus?
Yep, especially without establishing effective dose versus safety profile of different doses (e.g. therapeutic index).
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@Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Chloroquine
Knowing nothing about this I was interested to see that it has warnings for the cohort most at risk from Covid 19:
Clinical studies of ARALEN did not include sufficient numbers of subjects aged 65 and over to determine whether they respond differently from younger subjects. However, this drug is known to be substantially excreted by the kidney, and the risk of toxic reactions to this drug may be greater in patients with impaired renal function. Because elderly patients are more likely to have decreased renal function, care should be taken in dose selection and it may be useful to monitor renal function.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2018/006002s045lbl.pdf
Disclaimer - take medical advice from me as you would from Nick Riviera
Coronavirus - New Zealand