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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Damo all things considered my opinion is we did what we had to do. Protect our fragile resources from a covid tidal wave. It is more challenging now, balancing continued caution with a desire to allow the economy to restart. Whichever way they decide I am sure there will be people unhappy with how the government are handling it
I agree.
My understanding is that most of the debate is about whether we should have gone to L3 on Thursday last week or on Tuesday after a long weekend. Pretty minor issue in the scheme of things.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Damo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Damo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Damo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Damo I also think that different societies/cultures behave differently and what works for one won't necessarily work somewhere else.
I reckon adding the long weekend to our lockdown shows our Govt. thinks we need to be hand held through this.
Agree first paragraph. Some societies don't need strict rules to ensure that the population acts appropriately to look after it's vulnerable people. Other societies need strong government rule, otherwise it's every body for themselves.
I agree with the govt on your second paragraph. We do.
More to the point, I also think a few extra days has allowed businesses to plan for how they will function in level 3. If they announced on Monday that we're into level 3 on Wednesday, some businesses might not have planned properly. My office is a case in point. We are ready to go tomorrow, on Wednesday we wouldn't have been.
What would be worse for the economy is level 3 being a disaster, and having to return to level 4.
I really struggle with this attitude, and quite honestly it makes me pretty angry. Who the hell decided we needed hand holding for a long weekend? And what have them the right to make that decision? The government stole 4 trading days from business who were ready to go.
The fact that your business wouldn't have been ready is totally on you, and absolutely not the fault of every other business that was more prepared.
If you're not ready to open, then don't fucking open. We trust people and businesses every day to obey a large list of laws and regulations. Operating under L3 guidelines is just another one, and we shouldn't hold the entire economy hostage because a few businesses can't be trusted.
Well I don't trust businesses who aren't ready to open not to open. It's great that you do, but I don't know what you base that on.
For us it's no big deal, our only public facing aspect at the moment is in court, and only some hearings are done in person most aren't.
What worries me, and no doubt worried the government is the businesses who are public facing and would open without much thought for others.
The other thing that worries me is that you say you are angry about it. Don't get angry about someone else having a different view to you mate. That is just silly.
Seriously, if something someone posts in a very civil political debate makes you angry, perhaps you shouldn't partake in political discussions online. Reasonable people can disagree on this sort of stuff.
It was your attitude that made me angry - you're not ready so the whole economy should wait for you. Pretty selfish IMO, and yeah, makes me pretty frustrated.
You may not don't trust others to act within the law, but where do you draw that line? Do you trust them to pay taxes? To follow OH&S guidelines?
The arbitrary extension for the long weekend was nothing to do with giving business more time anyway as they could have announced a week earlier that the original end date was going to be maintained. It was purely a government overreaching and taking away personal liberties for their agenda.
Mate you shouldn't ever get angry at someone who posts on a sports forum. I repeat that is extremely unhealthy and you should probably walk away if you are angry. I also think it's borderline to go around calling other people selfish because they have a different perspective to you.
I invite you to edit your post and remove the inappropriate language.
You obviously haven't been hanging around on the fern long enough to tackle with one of the guys who used to post here. That was nothing compared to receiving a lashing from him!
Well I normally post at Planet Rugby.
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@Damo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Yeah I just think that the current risk averse approach of the government is good. You clearly don't.
I think it is better to go slowly and ensure we avoid a longer than necessary lockdown, than risk having to go backwards. That would in my estimation be significantly worse for the economy not least because it would make people distrustful of the next time we relaxed. The last thing we want is people too afraid to go outside. Most of these businesses that are opening up need customers to function, regardless of what the laws are.
I have no issue with your viewpoint here, I certainly disagree, but you're entitled to think this
Hardly selfish on my part because I am thinking about others who are more vulnerable to the disease than me. That sort of loaded language diminishes political discussions and is unhelpful.
I am sure we all believe that we are expressing reasonable viewpoints, otherwise we would be expressing different views. I didn't ask you to apologise, that would be silly.
I just wondered if you might reflect whether calling someone selfish for expressing a different view to yours is helpful. Laugh if you want but that seems an odd position to take.Your original post said that you supported the lockdown extension because it gave businesses (including yours) more time to get ready and this is the thought process that I consider selfish - it has nothing to do with you holding a different view. Again, if I misinterpreted your statement, then I'm sorry for that.
We had a clear, known date for lockdown to end, and all businesses should have been working towards that. Sure the details of what L3 would ultimately be were not all known, but I would suggest that social distancing, delivery only, and a lack of contact with customers would have been a fairly sensible assumption to make. 4 days of trading lost is not to be sneezed at - for many business who run tight, low-margin businesses, this can be make-or-break, especially after the 4 weeks leading in.
I'm going to leave this one here Damo, I don't particularly enjoy the back-and-forth arguments with individual posters - you seem like a reasonable dude, I'm sure we will find something to agree on and most likely disagree on again in the future!
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We had a known potential date for lockdown to end, and all businesses should have been working towards that.
FIFY
It was pretty clearly stated all along that L4 was for an initial period to be re-assessed toward the end to decide what and how to do after that.
There was never a stated end that was then extended.
Many people I know expected that any reduction would probably make sense to happen after the long weekend, especially after seeing how some people reacted over Easter.
I think when the pros and cons of changing to L3 Tonight rather than last week were added up the former won out. -
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We had a known potential date for lockdown to end, and all businesses should have been working towards that.
FIFY
It was pretty clearly stated all along that L4 was for an initial period to be re-assessed toward the end to decide what and how to do after that.
There was never a stated end that was then extended.
Many people I know expected that any reduction would probably make sense to happen after the long weekend, especially after seeing how some people reacted over Easter.
I think when the pros and cons of changing to L3 Tonight rather than last week were added up the former won out.Sure, but, as a business owner, surely you'd be negligent if you weren't working towards bring ready for the earliest possible date. You can't be sitting there waiting for the announcement a few days out.
Imagine you still had your restaurant. You would have been using lockout to work out plans for delivery (if viable), speaking to key staff, contacting key supply chain etc - you wouldn't be sitting still waiting for Cindy to give you the green light right?
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@voodoo but the govt has been saying to business get a plan sorted right from the start They didn't necessarily know when the green light to start trading would come, of with what conditions, but wanted businesses to be as ready as possible. It's the same as messaging to Joe public imo, you just have to keep repeating the message, even though the majority get it fine.
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo but the govt has been saying to business get a plan sorted right from the start They didn't necessarily know when the green light to start trading would come, of with what conditions, but wanted businesses to be as ready as possible. It's the same as messaging to Joe public imo, you just have to keep repeating the message, even though the majority get it fine.
That's my point though, given that message, you can't turn around as a business and say "hey, don't open the gates after 28 days, we need another 4 to get ready!"
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Can everyone please just follow the government instructions so we can knock out this corona virus and be done?! I feel like a kindergartner who keeps losing more recess time because one or two kids can’t follow directions.
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@voodoo I think the extension comes back to the long weekend and fear (or concern etc) about movement and worst case scenarios more so than those extra days helping people in business out substantially.
Especially with the ongoing work to sort out our tracking systems. Good to see them getting the author of the review in to check it out.
It's kind of helped marketing wise though as I've seen heaps of local FB and social media activity on who will be open etc. Heaps of support for those businesses and customers are keen. So people have had a few days to plan getting out there as customers as well. Which is great to see.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
So much knowledge in hindsight being thrown around.
When NZ had to make a decision on strategy a hell of a lot of the outcomes and comparisons weren't available.
Every country has had to make a call based on their own circumstances, so to compare, and especially to declare over-reaction is not only misleading, but unfair.
The comparison with Oz has been very misleading from many quarters. Although the restrictions are less by decree, in practice people are pretty much following what NZ has made official. There are certainly some areas of business that have been able to lessen the immediate economic impact by themselves though.
Along with the Oz approach came increased risk that it may be harder to get to a 'normal' level as quickly as an eradication plan.
If that risk hasn't eventuated then I think that is great. We (at least the NZ cabinet) had to decide whether to take that risk or follow advice that a more certain path was achievable.I think it could be an excellent outcome if NZ 'eradicates' quickly and Australia can declare confidence around community transmission as well. If we can get the border open and work together while waiting on a vax it could be a catalyst for a new round of CER and sorting out the stupidly messy immigration/residency situation that we currently have.
Yeah, this place has frustrated me from the point of view of some of the NZ based posters and their claims about Australia. As I've said repeatedly regardless of any govt decisions the economy took a huge hit, as I've also said my friends who lost their jobs lost them before any govt social distancing was implemented. Even with the allowance for food places to stay open a bunch have closed because it's more expensive to remain open when there's barely any people going in.
I still think Australia, and Sydney especially got lucky, especially after the Ruby Princess debacle, and that community transmission didn't take off before the govt stepped in, although TBF lots of people/organisations had started social distancing when the PM was telling people it was fine to go to the league. I find it odd that people can see the devastation in some areas overseas and think that it can't happen here, FFS 8 weeks I was part of a team working on a Covid response for my organisation and I doubt any of us thought it was anything more than some risk planning for something that was never going to happen.
And to be completely honest I hope that both Oz and NZ, using their very slightly different methods, both come out of this ok, we haven't had the devastation of other countries (and in NZ's case the deaths so far seem to be confined to the elderly) who not only have the economic fallout but the health fallout as well.
And to the other discussion point, trusting people to be responsible ... you only need to look at Australia's beaches to know that people are idiots. They were clearly reopened for people to go for a swim as exercise yet so many retards just trotted down for a day at the beach.
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@taniwharugby ha! Welcome to the world. How many rules/laws do we have as some folks can't manage their shit 😁
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby ha! Welcome to the world. How many rules/laws do we have as some folks can't manage their shit 😁
I was in a meeting with HR recently and said something to the effect of most corporate policies exist because someone breached them before they were written down - there was a lot of nodding of heads at that.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We had a known potential date for lockdown to end, and all businesses should have been working towards that.
FIFY
It was pretty clearly stated all along that L4 was for an initial period to be re-assessed toward the end to decide what and how to do after that.
There was never a stated end that was then extended.
Many people I know expected that any reduction would probably make sense to happen after the long weekend, especially after seeing how some people reacted over Easter.
I think when the pros and cons of changing to L3 Tonight rather than last week were added up the former won out.Sure, but, as a business owner, surely you'd be negligent if you weren't working towards bring ready for the earliest possible date. You can't be sitting there waiting for the announcement a few days out.
Imagine you still had your restaurant. You would have been using lockout to work out plans for delivery (if viable), speaking to key staff, contacting key supply chain etc - you wouldn't be sitting still waiting for Cindy to give you the green light right?
That's simplistic in my view. The situation is fluid in terms of what is and isn't ok. It's easy to say that businesses should be ready to go, but they have staff to deal with and suppliers and possibly specific rules to follow.
Some businesses won't care that much and will be so desperate to open that they ll open with or without thinking it through. There is potential for additional clusters to open up because a business/staff don't know or care about what they're doing. The people affected are not necessarily the business or staff themselves.
A bit of extra time for the guidelines and rules to be clear is not a bad thing. Hell, if the courts didn't know what they were doing until Friday, how can a small business?
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See Jucy Rentals had about 100 cars stolen from thier depot over the weekend.
That is a large scale co-ordinated theft for a bunch of Suzuki Swift's and Mazda 3s...
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
See Jucy Rentals had about 100 cars stolen from thier depot over the weekend.
That is a large scale co-ordinated theft for a bunch of Suzuki Swift's and Mazda 3s...
if they are painted like they are here, how in the fuck do you hide them?
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
See Jucy Rentals had about 100 cars stolen from thier depot over the weekend.
That is a large scale co-ordinated theft for a bunch of Suzuki Swift's and Mazda 3s...
if they are painted like they are here, how in the fuck do you hide them?
Nah these ones aren’t painted like typical jucy cars.
Crazy thing is they all had their keys left inside them.Assume all involved watched a particular Nick Cage film before commencing the heist
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@mariner4life nah I dont think all the cars are painted the green/purple like the campers/vans
Apparently multiple arrests and about a dozen cars located some damaged.
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@Bones I was trying to figure out how long it'd take them to shift 60 bloody cars! Gotta be an inside job - or possibly gangs? you'd also think the cars would have hidden gps or something as well. Probably better off nicking one or two and taking the stereos and gas from the rest... or take all the wheels or some shit.
Coronavirus - New Zealand