Coronavirus - Overall
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Firstly that's been changed from when it took place.
The same para in in the guidance on 17 March - when it was first published.
But riddle me this, Boris gets it goes off the grid at Chequers and it's announced to the world. Transparent.
Cummings gets it, skulks off. No word. Secretive.
Hardly. It was in the press at the time when people were criticising the government for not taking enough care. Surely Cummings is entitled to the same privacy rights as any one else isn't he?
We have very different views on this.
Hopefully we'll agree to disagree.
I think when kids and medical matters are concerned, politicians and Snr civil servants deserve some space.
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118 today. Our lowest it seems like forever. Great stuff.
Got hammered at in laws place today. Gave social distancing the heave ho if honest. As adults we made our call on it and enjoyed ourselves.
Watched Boris presser with glass of vino on hand. He basically gave the media wolf pack the middle finger. As much as I physically hate the media, I’m not sure thst was a great idea.
Standard set anyway.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Firstly that's been changed from when it took place.
The same para in in the guidance on 17 March - when it was first published.
But riddle me this, Boris gets it goes off the grid at Chequers and it's announced to the world. Transparent.
Cummings gets it, skulks off. No word. Secretive.
Hardly. It was in the press at the time when people were criticising the government for not taking enough care. Surely Cummings is entitled to the same privacy rights as any one else isn't he?
We have very different views on this.
Hopefully we'll agree to disagree.
I think when kids and medical matters are concerned, politicians and Snr civil servants deserve some space.
For sure, but I’m not certain that it applies in this case. To me it looks like he is playing that card. Does he then deserve some space? I might be seeming a little harsh on Cummings here and that might be because, as alluded to earlier it has been handled badly, though I fear it is not just that. Anyway, I think I’m done with this one until one of you bastards reels me back in. 😎
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Does he not have a private support group in London? Does he not have access to high levels of care and medical support in the major city in the UK?
I don't know about what access to care and family he had in London. He'd want to be with family (who are in Durham) as would anyone. It may have been a crap decision, but it's understandable
I think what you are saying that as he's a Snr Advisor, he should have had access to and used facilities not available to Joe Public as he was a different case. But isn't the criticism against him that he saw himself different to Joe Public?
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
For sure, but I’m not certain that it applies in this case. To me it looks like he is playing that card.
I take your point, But I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt - as any parent does in that situation.
Anyway, I think I’m done with this one until one of you bastards reels me back in.
It's a new week tomorrow. Start by researching R rates & airliner sales futures...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
For sure, but I’m not certain that it applies in this case. To me it looks like he is playing that card.
I take your point, But I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt - as any parent does in that situation.
Anyway, I think I’m done with this one until one of you bastards reels me back in.
It's a new week tomorrow. Start by researching R rates & airliner sales futures...
And don't forget lockdown reveal 5 p.m. Thursday!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
For sure, but I’m not certain that it applies in this case. To me it looks like he is playing that card.
I take your point, But I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt - as any parent does in that situation.
Anyway, I think I’m done with this one until one of you bastards reels me back in.
It's a new week tomorrow. Start by researching R rates & airliner sales futures...
Benefit of the doubt? That’s not the current British way!
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
For sure, but I’m not certain that it applies in this case. To me it looks like he is playing that card.
I take your point, But I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt - as any parent does in that situation.
Anyway, I think I’m done with this one until one of you bastards reels me back in.
It's a new week tomorrow. Start by researching R rates & airliner sales futures...
Benefit of the doubt? That’s not the current British way!
It's not cricket!
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I never agreed with this lock-down
I don't agree that healthy, law abiding people should have their movements restricted (has it ever been done before). Or their rights to run a business or work stopped. Or to play sport etc. Rather it should have been a more focused. Where sick people are told to stay at home. Working at home is encouraged.
And the vulnerable are protected. The last point is key. That was the sensible path. Protect the vulnerable and let the rest get on with their lives
The outcome will be a disaster. One example below. The nanny state and its outcome (And I can't see how the economy will recover from this for years)
We suggested, at the beginning of April, that a "suicide wave" was imminent considering the economic devastation sparked by COVID-19 lockdowns. In the last nine weeks, 38.6 million Americans have lost their jobs and were thrown into instant poverty. Many were already skating on thin financial ice even before the pandemic, and now they've fallen through, drowning in insurmountable debts, no savings, and limited lifelines.
The first signs of a suicide wave could be originating in California. ABC7 News reports doctors and nurses at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, in the East Bay region of the San Francisco Bay Area, are reporting deaths by suicide far exceed COVID-19 deaths during the pandemic.
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@Winger So you are basing this on anecdotal reports from one hospital in a renowned conspiracy theory promoting (and frequently banned) alt right blog. In a country that hasn't had much of a lockdown at all.
NZ which has had a comprehensive lockdown has had a reduction in the suicide rate - as has Japan and NSW.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger So you are basing this on anecdotal reports from one hospital in a renowned conspiracy theory promoting (and frequently banned) alt right blog. In a country that hasn't had much of a lockdown at all.
NZ which has had a comprehensive lockdown has had a reduction in the suicide rate - as has Japan and NSW.
I hope people don't go this far down. But the other aspect is destroying the economy that will lead to all sorts of hardships and stress. And taking away people's rights. Does the West want to continue down this path. I hope the answer is no.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Firstly that's been changed from when it took place.
The same para in in the guidance on 17 March - when it was first published.
But riddle me this, Boris gets it goes off the grid at Chequers and it's announced to the world. Transparent.
Cummings gets it, skulks off. No word. Secretive.
Hardly. It was in the press at the time when people were criticising the government for not taking enough care. Surely Cummings is entitled to the same privacy rights as any one else isn't he?
We have very different views on this.
Hopefully we'll agree to disagree.
I think when kids and medical matters are concerned, politicians and Snr civil servants deserve some space.
That's effectively a get out of gaol card.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger So you are basing this on anecdotal reports from one hospital in a renowned conspiracy theory promoting (and frequently banned) alt right blog. In a country that hasn't had much of a lockdown at all.
NZ which has had a comprehensive lockdown has had a reduction in the suicide rate - as has Japan and NSW.
Because people couldn't leave home. The increase will come when they're able to get a measure of privacy.
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I never agreed with this lock-down
That's ... brave.
How do you not have a lockdown when you have community transmission of a virus that can transfer asymptomatically? I fundamentally disagree with you on that, it was a reasonable and sound call.
There's plenty of healthy discussion to be had on how aggressively you come out of lockdown, or allow activities that are safe (rather than trying to define essential), but going into the lockdown seems like Pandemic 101.
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@antipodean what about all those (like me) who were isolating alone? I agree it would be surprising if there isn't an increase given the financial hardships many are going to face but nevertheless I believe @Winger was drawing a very long and paranoid bow. As for suggesting suicide deaths will outnumber COVID that's ridiculous. 48K Americans committed suicide last year - so it would have to increase 300%.
During the GFC it increased by about 10K - so again 10 times as bad as the impact of GFC and while he economic impact could be that high I doubt it will add 100K suicides. According to a Reuters report the suicide rate goes up 1% for every point increase in unemployment - so worst case the number of suicides might go up by a third - or 15K. Even if you assume suicides will go up for a few years its still seven years of 30% above the norm before you get to the reported COVID fatalities to date.
Every suicide is a tragedy and there will be suicides because of economic stresses no doubt. But people were going to have to endure economic hardship even without a lockdown. There will also sadly be people who simply can't face the new normal even if financially they're OK.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I never agreed with this lock-down
That's ... brave.
How do you not have a lockdown when you have community transmission of a virus that can transfer asymptomatically? I fundamentally disagree with you on that, it was a reasonable and sound call.
There's plenty of healthy discussion to be had on how aggressively you come out of lockdown, or allow activities that are safe (rather than trying to define essential), but going into the lockdown seems like Pandemic 101.
When has this ever happened before?
And this nanny state wreck the economy approach was not used in every country. Or every state in the US.
Or even China. The close down apart from Wuhan was even a lot less in the rest of China. The West overall could have been more selective like China (close down affected areas only as some US states did) but it took the hammer to the economy and peoples lives when a more thoughtful selective approach could have been used.My view is its over the top and an approach that I outlined below would have been much better. Esp focusing on the vulnerable.
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Civil liberties and human rights are important. The current social contract around those liberties and rights can simplistically be summed up as do whatever you want as long as you don't infringe on someone else's rights.
The obvious question would be where a pandemic sits in that framework, particularly a disease which has a long asymptomatic but infectious period, and a high impact on certain demographic groups. It's pretty easy to catch it and spread it unknowingly, so where does your right to do whatever you want infringe on others' rights? That's a tough question, and it's not something with an easy answer.
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@Godder well as has been mentioned numerous time in this thread, what is the cost of a human life vs the economy...
What is Swedens economy doing by comparison, given they are on of the few who have done nearly nothing in terms of restricting movement.
But with a population double our size and almost 4,000 deaths, has the cost to thier economy been ok while sacrificing some peoples lives?
In regard to Vaccines, I see NZ is likely well down the queue if or when one gets made, which I assume is because we arent really down the path of developing our own, and I expect urgency to receive one must also play a part too?
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
But with a population double our size and almost 4,000 deaths, has the cost to thier economy been ok while sacrificing some peoples lives?
Comparing Sweden to it's neighbours is more valid
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
But with a population double our size and almost 4,000 deaths, has the cost to their economy been ok while sacrificing some peoples lives?
I think, much like NZ and Oz, Sweden can't avoid the economic impact of Covid and many commentators and Sweden's reserve bank seem to be holding this view.