Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan do you genuinely think that even if there is a legit fuck up revealed (or several) that people will swing back to National given their recent shambles and retirement of some of their heavier hitters (I ain't looking at you Gerry).
I am clearly more Labour leaning than Nat but think any govt would be on struggle street with this situation. I've been more concerned about the state of our health system and it's ability to respond. I know that's nothing new but those entities and systems etc are meant to be in place and ready to go no matter who is in power. At least as far as my take on things goes and setting aside the slinging about who cut or prioritized x,y,z funding over the years.
Yep I do. There is a core block for each party that won't, but a fuzzy percentage of lets say 10% in the middle can be affected by scandals. With NZ First teetering on the edge of oblivion, might be all it takes.
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@JK said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan do you genuinely think that even if there is a legit fuck up revealed (or several) that people will swing back to National given their recent shambles and retirement of some of their heavier hitters (I ain't looking at you Gerry).
I am clearly more Labour leaning than Nat but think any govt would be on struggle street with this situation. I've been more concerned about the state of our health system and it's ability to respond. I know that's nothing new but those entities and systems etc are meant to be in place and ready to go no matter who is in power. At least as far as my take on things goes and setting aside the slinging about who cut or prioritized x,y,z funding over the years.
Its an interesting one. I'm really not sure how many would actually sway back.
I've always been a pretty staunch national supporter but hell I dont have much confidence in the current lot and really dont think we would be in any better situation. Suspect we would be in shit but a different type of shit (economy slightly better maybe but prob still battling round 1 of COVID). It's pretty tough times for all involved.
I personally don't think it will erode many people's views much at all. This flare up has come at the worst possible time for National because it takes all attention away from less impressive areas of labour's administration
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some pretty staunch conspiracy stuff here.
Generally coincidences are proven to be caused by coincidence.
The increased talk of masks has probably got everything to do with the fact that WHO changed their position on masks, given that Bloomfield has always followed the WHO line.
Similarly talk of need to be following the rules an outbreak will happen etc a reaction to Melbourne and obvious complacency by the general public. I thought an outbreak was likely and I have no inside knowledge at all.
@JK by "we" who do you mean? Cindy obviously knew ahead of 4:00 p.m. There was a positive test ahead of then.
Anyways just to add to the paranoia I have heard from a number of authoritative sources today - CEO of top 50 company, Senior Clinician at a leading hospital, Partner at a top law firm that we are moving to Lvl 4 for four weeks. Thing is I don't think they have the good oil. I simply feel they are making the same educated guess as me. But when "people in the know" start saying these things it gives what is effectively not even a rumour credibility. Then we do go to Level 4 everyone goes a-ha. But all that's happened is the educated guess was right - which in probability it should be more often than not.
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I reckon some of you are being a bit tough. Every government around the world is learning on the job. This thing was always going to pop up again no matter what the government did. It's impossible to control, especially if there is an element of relying on people to do the right thing.
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@taniwharugby Exactly.
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy by improving what was previously done - whether that is sorting weak links and/or follow the latest medical advice. But the overall intent is the same, rub it out and see how far we can take that.
For how long? I don't really want to leave the country but I'm sure that some do.
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@Paekakboyz problem is, I am not convinced they have learned much, and I honestly think even if we do get back to zero again, nothing short of shutting our borders will keep it out.
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@taniwharugby what is that based on? I don't think we've heard anywhere near the full story and details about systems improvements and all the stuff that would have changed or improved on the back of the new crew running quarantine. Lots of things got tightened up as part of that Covid oversight group - where Bridges did a pretty good job on the whole.
I agree that any form of keeping borders open has risk, and right now we are most likely dealing with something going wrong on that front. Mentioned that I agree with @Kirwan that we need a far tighter operation if we genuinely expect zero spread through returning folks. -
@Paekakboyz NZ but I won't be leaving my rural setting either if the government have anything to do with it.
Eventually people will want to travel again. So how long do we close the borders? Lock people up. It would seem that it can't be eliminated, so we do the same thing with the 3rd wave? Fourth? Fifth?
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@Snowy yeah I hear you on that front - it does feel open ended and probably will continue to do so until some kind of vaccine is available. I suspect quite a few people will be shy on travelling if shit continues to spin out overseas - and even if you are heading for a 'safe' country the whole travel side of it is scary.
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@Paekakboyz just based on the fcat we are now looking down the barrell of a 2nd lockdown.
There are so many people working in and around our borders who are not being tested, and in some cases it is probably nigh on impossible to test these regularly given the chance of regular exposure, meaning getting back to zero will be a 'yay for us again' with the inevitble positive test again in 4 weeks, 8 weeks or whenever.
There has to be a better way to manage this, it seems that our Govt has been sitting on thier hands waiting for this to happen or a vaccine is produced, given the lack of anything else about what the future might look like being discussed
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@taniwharugby agree about the risk but think it's pretty rough to say they've been sitting on their hands - in fact I'd imagine any number of folks involved in trying to get the system as watertight as possible would want to send you to Snowy's basement for that kind of call.
Surely there is a grey area where Govt and everyone involved is held to account alongside an understanding this is an unprecedented situation and no perfect approach has shown itself, or that anything close to perfect means locking us down fully. Which would in turn open up new avenues of criticism and conspiracy theories and so on.
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@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy yeah I hear you on that front - it does feel open ended and probably will continue to do so until some kind of vaccine is available. I suspect quite a few people will be shy on travelling if shit continues to spin out overseas - and even if you are heading for a 'safe' country the whole travel side of it is scary.
I wouldn't be getting in a tube full of people to go to somewhere on a disease infected planet with them either, but I don't see where it ends.
We now have local lock downs and police blockades. That's not going to work either. We have to become a completely free covid free zone and stop people coming in, or give up and let it happen.
I can't see middle ground.
How much faith does anyone have in a vaccine soon? Will it work if / when the virus evolves? Do we just do this whole thing again if that happens?