Coronavirus - Overall
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@Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Clearly non-productive isn't completely accurate, but I do think it's fair to say that the sum of production, consumption and general contribution to economic activity by 65+ yr olds (or whatever the number is) is far less than that of the reminder of the 18-[65] working population.
Says the guy not working.
every cohort has its share of freeloaders...
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This is becoming a very 'age' related conundrum when healthy 65+ yr old individuals with no (known) pre-existing health conditions are being lumped in with all 65+year olds who are at risk.
In the same way that humans have identified a 'mental' age which may not correspond with actual age, there is a 'physical / health index' age which can be lower, equal to, or higher than actual age.
@canefan and @taniwharugby jokingly mentioned pharmaceuticals and treatments which are keeping people alive but if healthy, not at risk individuals of all ages are being asked to 'take one for the team' then the least we can ask of the sick is for them to do everything they can to get better.
Not sure what it's like in Oz and NZ but in the UK there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands with known aliments - heart disease, cancer, diabetes - who
continue to eat what the fuck they like, more often than not to excess
drink alcohol
smoke
take non-prescription drugs
do little to no exercise
are overweightSurely it's time for them to 'take one for the team'
And I say this as someone who watched their deceased brother (45 years of age) do all of the above despite having three heart attacks (the fourth finished him off), having a leg amputed, being on disablity, and costing the NHS hundreds of thousands of £ in treament and medicines.
If he were alive today, he would be one of many who we are trying to protect from Covid-19 and I can honestly say why?
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@MiketheSnow I sympathise with your position, and offer my sincere condolences regarding your brother.
I'm very torn on Covid reaction. It does seem to have a certain amount of randomness as to how much it will affect you. My wife was basically hit by a truck from it. Woke up feeling a bit tired, and by 12pm was in bed for the next 3 days, barely able to move. Took her the best part of a month to fully recover. She's not the fittest, but she is healthy. Oddly enough, she had zero respiratory issues with it. Just the fever, & then lost all taste / smell for a good amount of time.
And then another old mate of mine, got as close as you can to being taken out. 3 weeks coma / ventilator, lost 13kg and will take 2 years to fully recover. 53 years old, asthmatic (although not severe).
But then quite a few others have tested positive who basically had nothing / mild symptoms.
So I understand all the shielding. I understand that people have to take precautions. But surely if enough people take enough precautions, then it won't jump up again. As summer ends and the temperature drops, it could be quite dangerous. But given the lack of mass gatherings / crowds on public transport .... how can it actually transmit?
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@MiketheSnow There will always be people who behave badly and rely on health services much more than the rest of us to stay alive. I just don't think our society is ready to put these people at greater risk so that the rest of us can go about our normal lives in the pandemic. Whatever your views on if they deserve that protection or not, that is the society we live in
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow I sympathise with your position, and offer my sincere condolences regarding your brother.
Thanks.
11 years now. He reaped what he sowed.
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@MajorRage that is what's going on here. Majority of people are taking reasonable precautions, keeps the chance of transmission down. Of course we have a less dense population and lesser reliance on public transport. But personal responsibility has a lot to do with it
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In the UK, Europe, USA, the border issues are much greater. However, if Taiwan or Singapore can do it (Singapore stuffed up by ignoring their migrant workers), its not impossible. Stringent testing, contact tracing, rigorous self isolation are all essential
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
continue to eat what the fuck they like, more often than not to excess
drink alcohol
smoke
take non-prescription drugs
do little to no exercise
are overweightIts an issue with our 'health' system. I ate crap in my 20s and ending up in my late 20s in not the best health. Not bad but heading that way unless I changed direction
Went to the doctor who just gave me drugs. Not advise on eating better etc. I sorted myself out in my late 30's. But my doctor was happy just to hand out pills and sprays etc (that was great for temporary relief but it was ongoing). I see doctors now as mostly just drug pushers. Very little advise about a more healthy lifestyle so pill popping becomes unnecessary. Those that have enough money can go a alternative path but many (even those with money) become locked into pill popping .
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
continue to eat what the fuck they like, more often than not to excess
drink alcohol
smoke
take non-prescription drugs
do little to no exercise
are overweightIts an issue with our 'health' system. I ate crap in my 20s and ending up in my late 20s in not the best health. Not bad but heading that way unless I changed direction
Went to the doctor who just gave me drugs. Not advise on eating better etc. I sorted myself out in my late 30's. But my doctor was happy just to hand out pills and sprays etc (that was great for temporary relief but it was ongoing). I see doctors now as mostly just drug pushers. Very little advise about a more healthy lifestyle so pill popping becomes unnecessary. Those that have enough money can go a alternative path but many (even those with money) become locked into pill popping .
I think there is a lot of this, very bad in some countries. Not because its some conspiracy on the part of big pharma and the medical profession, just laziness. A big one is the prescription of prozac and other similar drugs. Not disparaging people with real mental imbalances but I see people who are a little anxious for lifestyle reasons that get put on antidepressants. Now maybe some of them just want a pill, but it doesn't address the root cause of their issues.
On the flip side people are lazy and many are not willing to do the work to fix themselves. Eating a little less and better, and exercising a bit more is much harder than taking a pill.
Having said all that, vaccines are a totally different ballgame, there is not yes or no choice there. Just so we are crystal clear 😄
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I think there is a lot of this
I don't think it's as bad as @Winger is making out, I've always had good Drs who have looked at lifestyle factors first before looking at medication. Am I just lucky?
That was my reaction too.
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Am I just lucky?
Probably just choosing good doctors.
My old man is like many of the elderly and has blind faith in his GP. He just drinks the kool aid and takes the pills. I used to go to the same guy and have moved on. My Dr now takes a more "holistic" approach - she is also rather, umm -nice.
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I think there is a lot of this
I don't think it's as bad as @Winger is making out, I've always had good Drs who have looked at lifestyle factors first before looking at medication. Am I just lucky?
Definitely not as bad as Winger makes out! In NZ I'd say doctors are reasonably conscientious in terms of trying to encourage lifestyle change. Aussie too. The US.....
"He was so young to die from covid19...."
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Very interesting
Media has one narrative, doctor has a very different take
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@Kruse said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@barbarian said in Coronavirus - Overall:
This article today summed up my general feelings about the 'open society while protecting the vulnerable' option:
I was thinking about that recently. The whole "let's do Sweden, but protect the elderly/vulnerable" theory... what does that look like? Turn rest-homes into quarantine zones? Force or strongly recommend that all elderly move into rest-homes? And then, as the article focuses on - what to do with the workers in these rest-homes... make their jobs as a mandatory "live-in" role?
It just doesn't work.Fairly sloppy article.
The only fail safe way to shield care home residents is to have live-in staff. As for the vulnerable in general population, they either live in almost solitary confinement or move to secure facility.
If this was as severe as bubonic plague things would change. Because Covid is no worse than a bad case of flu, easy to take bitzer approach.
Of course, what the article **does **identify is that the system is not set up to cope properly with pandemics.
Covid won't be the last, so the system needs to be redesigned.
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
Amazing how the threat of serious bodily harm to yourself and the wider community can help some people put their first world problems into greater perspective
Off topic, but my dentist mate made the decision to ditch Sydney and the current sporadic work situation (he's only been able to work out of one of the three clinics he used to work from) do his Masters dentistry ... in London.
He's heading over in a couple of months - the other option for him was Melbourne Uni and that was supposed to start July but he didn't get accepted for this round.
Makes sense to do his post grad at a time when there is economic uncertainty
Yep, but I wouldn't want to be heading to the UK just yet, plus he's probably not going to be able to see his parents before he goes as they're in WA ... so could be three years before he sees them again.
If you're saying heading to UK is a health risk, you're totally misinformed. Here now five times more likely to die from flu/pneumonia than Covid.
If wondering about getting back again, well it's a complete lottery, unless either a vaccine is found or NZ finds its elimination strategy is untenable.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow There will always be people who behave badly and rely on health services much more than the rest of us to stay alive. I just don't think our society is ready to put these people at greater risk so that the rest of us can go about our normal lives in the pandemic. Whatever your views on if they deserve that protection or not, that is the society we live in
There is an economic cost to all this. If the NZ government were to find itself unable to fund ongoing Covid support some stark choices would have to be made.
For now JA's bet on 00 looks OK, but for the world as a whole that is simply not a viable solution.