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@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
Key had years and years to achieve something, and well, he didn't really bother.
I can tell you that opinion is quite removed from that held overseas of John Key.
If we're going on opinion held overseas, then Ardern is pretty much god's gift mate.
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@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
Key had years and years to achieve something, and well, he didn't really bother.
I can tell you that opinion is quite removed from that held overseas of John Key.
If we're going on opinion held overseas, then Ardern is pretty much god's gift mate.
Yes, but not on economic matters. She's more a modern political Lady Diana...
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@antipodean which is still likely to benefit us on an international stage during trade and other negotiations.
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@Paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean which is still likely to benefit us on an international stage during trade and other negotiations.
I don't believe that is going to make trade negotiators buckle. Other countries don't give a shit that she's on the cover of New Idea and politicians are more than capable of fawning over her publicly while getting the absolute best deal for themselves.
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@antipodean big range between benefit and getting someone to buckle. If her profile gets her more time with other leaders that's a win imo.
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@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
Key had years and years to achieve something, and well, he didn't really bother.
I can tell you that opinion is quite removed from that held overseas of John Key.
If we're going on opinion held overseas, then Ardern is pretty much god's gift mate.
Yes, but not on economic matters. She's more a modern political Lady Diana...
I'm not defending her, I think Labour have done fuck-all except a reasonable job on the Covid. My point remains, the opposition are such a shambles that fuck-all is probably still a win. You want someone to blame, blame them.
As for Key, name some achievements. He had a heap of political capital, and did very little with it. He lowered the top tax rate, increased GST, sold some assets, fucked education standards, brought back Sir/Dame and wasted a heap of money trying to change the flag. Hardly ground-breaking stuff. -
I have to say living in Australia for nearly 20 years I am a little envious of NZ. Maybe it's the old grass is greener bias but NZ appears to have a far better culture then many countries. It is hard to explain but I think Arden has a lot to do with this. Her relationships with Maori, Muslims, Minorities as a white middle/upper class woman have been nothing short of inspiring.
I saw that clip of her visiting the Maori wood carver from Twitch and it's this sort of thing that creates a culture that can only benefit all New Zealanders.
Is there even a way to accurately judge how well a political party has governed? Has there ever been a Govt that everyone agreed did an amazing job and didn't fuck someone over?
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@chimoaus The culture in NZ is much nicer/kinder than Australia when it comes to racism etc., but economically it is, frankly, shit. That is due to neglect from both major parties over a long period of time and - too much to go into right now - but the net result is that inequality has increased a shitload, work remains poorly paid in NZ, cost of living is really high and skyrocketed lately, and we have been papering our shit economy over with $ from high volume tourism and "increased GDP" from migration that (I think) most NZers don't really want or at least think has gone too far. Which of course has disappeared for the moment.
None of that is really a recipe for continuing good culture for that matter.I'm rich, so whatevs, but still it's pretty disappointing to watch leaders play popularity over policy and positive change - especially when there are so many obvious things that need to be done. After hearing Ardern say that she had a mandate to implement the whole Labour election manifesto, I read it. Fuck my days there's some time I'll never get back. There are about 3 quantifiable things in the 10 pages, it's all just vague waffle "continue to improve this, investigate that, focus on my head up my own arse, etc".
Nobody is universally popular, and most governments do some good and some bad stuff - but hindsight can provide some objectivity on what were good changes - and most good changes require somebody to be fucked over. Make bureaucracy more efficient, people lose jobs. Reform the tax system, there are winners and losers. Even if it makes things more fair, you can bet your arse the losers will be crying about how they've been fucked over by not being favoured anymore.
Or, as Snowy says, No.
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@Mokey said in NZ Politics:
Honestly, I don't know why he wanted to go on TV after election night. Barry and Campbell etc were shitty to Nikki Kaye all evening and she didn't do anything wrong. How exactly did JLR think it was going to go down with his track record and an acerbic interviewer?
He looks a bit dim, and an attention whore, so maybe its that?
I thought the interview was great. I wish a few of our journos would call out politicians on their bullshit here face to face - all we get is sycophantic mewling or Murdoch triumphalism about very average re-announced policies.
I bemoaned our journos being toothless on twitter once and a couple of them said "we're just there to report the facts" which is fucking bullshit - they're meant to turn up, report, investigate, and then call people on their bullshit.
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@NTA said in NZ Politics:
I thought the interview was great. I wish a few of our journos would call out politicians on their bullshit here face to face
Ex politician, no power, so an easy target to hit. If people did that with actual people in power it'd be a differnet story... -
@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
Ex politician, no power, so an easy target to hit. If people did that with actual people in power it'd be a differnet story...
Sounds like he was pretty easy target regardless. Did he ever volunteer to go on while he was a sitting MP?
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@NTA said in NZ Politics:
@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
Ex politician, no power, so an easy target to hit. If people did that with actual people in power it'd be a differnet story...
Sounds like he was pretty easy target regardless. Did he ever volunteer to go on while he was a sitting MP?
He dug his heels in and stayed until the end
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@Paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean big range between benefit and getting someone to buckle. If her profile gets her more time with other leaders that's a win imo.
But they don't do the negotiations.
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
Key had years and years to achieve something, and well, he didn't really bother.
I can tell you that opinion is quite removed from that held overseas of John Key.
If we're going on opinion held overseas, then Ardern is pretty much god's gift mate.
Yes, but not on economic matters. She's more a modern political Lady Diana...
I'm not defending her, I think Labour have done fuck-all except a reasonable job on the Covid. My point remains, the opposition are such a shambles that fuck-all is probably still a win. You want someone to blame, blame them.
As for Key, name some achievements. He had a heap of political capital, and did very little with it. He lowered the top tax rate, increased GST, sold some assets, fucked education standards, brought back Sir/Dame and wasted a heap of money trying to change the flag. Hardly ground-breaking stuff.I'm not interested in being held to account for Key's time as PM, but under his leadership New Zealand came through the GFC comparably brilliantly. Australia burned a heap of cash needlessly and in a decade of policy stasis has ensured that reform and balanced budgets are impossible for the foreseeable future.
If we have another crisis in the next 100 years, there's no ammunition left to fight it with.
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@antipodean agree re-the GFC. Key and English were very fiscally responsible
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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean agree re-the GFC. Key and English were very fiscally responsible
... by doing not a lot, inheriting a good financial position and increase in trade with China bailing us out - and making the situation look better than the reality via immigration. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/319701/john-key's-$400bn-legacy is a reasonably balanced take on it.
There is some credit due for sure, but largely characterised by being dealt a good hand and inaction in my opinion. He knew full well what was going on with housing, and the inequality and generational problems it would cause, but decided that it was in his best interests to leave it alone.
Now Ardern is doing exactly the same. In fact the parallels are striking - Labour are coming out of a global crisis smelling like roses when the reality is they've been dealt a great hand with our isolation, and are roundly ignoring the major problems the country has because solving them would be unpopular. -
@Paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@canefan speak of infrastructure did you see the article on the state of our pipes in Wellington!!? Ffs I wish I was talking bout weed!
No. Must be about as good as ours
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@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@antipodean agree re-the GFC. Key and English were very fiscally responsible
... by doing not a lot, inheriting a good financial position and increase in trade with China bailing us out - and making the situation look better than the reality via immigration. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/319701/john-key's-$400bn-legacy is a reasonably balanced take on it.
There is some credit due for sure, but largely characterised by being dealt a good hand and inaction in my opinion. He knew full well what was going on with housing, and the inequality and generational problems it would cause, but decided that it was in his best interests to leave it alone.
Now Ardern is doing exactly the same. In fact the parallels are striking - Labour are coming out of a global crisis smelling like roses when the reality is they've been dealt a great hand with our isolation, and are roundly ignoring the major problems the country has because solving them would be unpopular.One difference is Keys government took action in their first 100 days that helped us weather that crisis well and with minimal disruption. No small feat.
Labour have borrowed us in an enormous hole in comparison for their crisis and we are about to reap the “rewards” of than over the next decade.
Don’t disagree too much that there was only minor improvements under Key, but part of that is due to MMP which is not an excuse Labour can use this term.
They can do what they like over the next three years, let’s see where we end up.
NZ Politics