Black Lives Matter
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Rough scenes from Philadelphia last night.
Black man attacks police with knife, gets shot dead (on camera). Cue riots, fires, attacks on police and mass looting of businesses. At one point a truck ran through a row of cops running over a female officer.
BLM with some last minute battle ground state campaigning for Trump.
(Warning rough scenes)
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Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
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@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
I have no idea, hence a reluctance to comment/criticize.
However, over time the gun laws and attitudes in the US have lead to this point where policing has become fighting rather than managing. That is always going to impact some communities more than others and create accusations and occasions of bias.
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@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
If there are more incidents like that young cop getting murdered at a traffic stop here in Auckland, that might change. A regular occurance in the US where guns are more freely available, and open carry is allowed.
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@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
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@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
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@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
Almost a pointless comparison though, even in general terms. If you are a cop in the US, the odds of you being shot at traffic stop are asrtominically higher than in NZ, so of course you get difference policing styles and training.
The US cops need significantly more funding to handle that stress.
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@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
It’s county by county and that’s the big problem - 3000+ different training regimes plus the state troopers.
At least in Commonwealth countries all cops are going to the same state/provincial/national academy and getting taught from the same playbook. Those academies are generally well resourced and for the most part the standard of admission is reasonably high (some may argue that,
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@Kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
Almost a pointless comparison though, even in general terms. If you are a cop in the US, the odds of you being shot at traffic stop are asrtominically higher than in NZ, so of course you get difference policing styles and training.
The US cops need significantly more funding to handle that stress.
It was never my point that they should be more like us. I was simply commenting on how different the policing situations had evolved and how our situation would seem quite incredible to them (partly for the reasons you state)
There is also the chicken and egg situation which is what we have been trying to keep under control for decades. If we arm up then the baddies do too, and vice-versa.
One thing I have noticed myself is that police that openly carry act in a very different manner to those that don't. I'm not criticising, just saying that it has a behavioural effect. I guess that if you know you have a gun on your hip you don't have to act as nice?
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@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
Again, tasers are not a good idea when someone is coming at you with a knife. Did you see the footage of the female cop in Chicago (I think) being stabbed a few pages ago?
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In this instance, I think they could have blasted his legs off.
He wasn't exactly moving fast and there was a good distance between him and the cops.
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I haven't even seen the footage but I always say "Why did they not aim at his thigh, or his left hand? The dopey police had plenty of time, three seconds is a lot if you count it out slowly. Anyway, getting belted into Wednesday week is part of their job and the Bad Luck, You're Dead insurance is pretty good." 😉
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@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
Again, tasers are not a good idea when someone is coming at you with a knife.
My point was more that non fatal options should be available? Surely there is some solution to disable without killing? We can take an elephant down with tranquilisers but not a human? Rubber bullets? They probably aren't viable now but I'm just saying that we need to work on a technology to get around killing people who are most likely mentally ill to attack a police officer with a knife.
The fatality is one thing but the affect on the police officer goes on too.
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@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
Again, tasers are not a good idea when someone is coming at you with a knife.
My point was more that non fatal options should be available? Surely there is some solution to disable without killing? We can take an elephant down with tranquilisers but not a human? Rubber bullets? They probably aren't viable now but I'm just saying that we need to work on a technology to get around killing people who are most likely mentally ill to attack a police officer with a knife.
The fatality is one thing but the affect on the police officer goes on too.
I like the sentiment and most cops would agree with it. Like you say the problem is the technology. We just don't have it. We would need an all encompassing 'weapon' that can be used in different scenarios fatal and non fatal. This is because cops are carrying around a lot of shit already, there isn't much room for anything else.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
Again, tasers are not a good idea when someone is coming at you with a knife.
My point was more that non fatal options should be available? Surely there is some solution to disable without killing? We can take an elephant down with tranquilisers but not a human? Rubber bullets? They probably aren't viable now but I'm just saying that we need to work on a technology to get around killing people who are most likely mentally ill to attack a police officer with a knife.
The fatality is one thing but the affect on the police officer goes on too.
I like the sentiment and most cops would agree with it. Like you say the problem is the technology. We just don't have it. We would need an all encompassing 'weapon' that can be used in different scenarios fatal and non fatal. This is because cops are carrying around a lot of shit already, there isn't much room for anything else.
I imagine that it would also have to be 100% reliable too. I'm sure the first time it fails to protect a cop from being killed/maimed it'd be cast aside?
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@Bones said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crazy-Horse said in Black Lives Matter:
@Snowy said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial Valid point. I wonder if they had tasers to defuse the situation rather than going for the fatal option when being approached with a knife?
Again, tasers are not a good idea when someone is coming at you with a knife.
My point was more that non fatal options should be available? Surely there is some solution to disable without killing? We can take an elephant down with tranquilisers but not a human? Rubber bullets? They probably aren't viable now but I'm just saying that we need to work on a technology to get around killing people who are most likely mentally ill to attack a police officer with a knife.
The fatality is one thing but the affect on the police officer goes on too.
I like the sentiment and most cops would agree with it. Like you say the problem is the technology. We just don't have it. We would need an all encompassing 'weapon' that can be used in different scenarios fatal and non fatal. This is because cops are carrying around a lot of shit already, there isn't much room for anything else.
I imagine that it would also have to be 100% reliable too. I'm sure the first time it fails to protect a cop from being killed/maimed it'd be cast aside?
They haven't ditched tasers yet, but they seem to be of limited use. The solutions aren't obvious it seems.
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Wonderful speech from LBJ in 1965 after Selma: https://singjupost.com/lyndon-b-johnson-the-american-promise-1965-speech-full-transcript/?singlepage=1