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@Rapido said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
@Rapido said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
Can the pro democrats people please let us know what policies you're most looking forward to seeing implemented?
Genuinely interested
Being from a small rules-based open trading economy.
Multi-lateralism with ability to provide leadership of the Western world. So don't see Chinese singling out Australia (and others, us one day ... ) with trade sanctions , like they're currently doing.
But Trump seems to have effectively nuked the imperfect institution of the WTO.
I'm not a pro-Dem. I'm not even sure they have any policies. But I'd be happy if a Democratic administration was honest about the need to reform some of the trans-national organisations like WHO, WTO and the UN and even NATO to make them more credible. They've got a golden opportunity to drive the change from within the tent without the international cheerleaders being able to dismiss them as ignorant rednecks.
Easing up on the pandering to the educated metropolitans at the expense of the "deplorables" who live in the heartland.
Not relenting from the pushback against Chinese hegemony in the developing world.
Finding some way to allow technology and knowledge transfer as well as preferential trade terms to allow friendly nations to reduce their reliance on Chinese manufacturing and distribution.
To zero in on this part . From our point of view it isn't reliance on Chinese manufacturing and distribution - that is a problem. It is reliance on them buying our goods. Same with Australia.
The big western blocs (EU and USA/NAFTA) have trade tarrifs on agriculture. That isn't pandering to the educated metropolitans at the expense of the "deplorables" who live in the heartland. But it is the biggest thing making NZ dependent on China.
I'm not suggesting that is fixable, or that any party in EU or North America could ever change that.
I do think that the WTO, despite its many flaws, protected small countries who depended on large countries, to some extent. Australia are finding out the hard way about the vacumn created in this space.
Maybe this sort of stuff (chinese bullying) would have happened eventually anyway, I must say I'm surprised at how CCP / Xi Jinping have reacted and acted the last few years. I thought they'd be smart enough to see Trump as a one termer and to play the long game. Maybe they had better pollsters ...
Not really my point. The pandemic has highlighted that many products that we rely on have a supply chain dependency on China. Breaking that and (re)establishing our own manufacturing capability will require a sympathetic approach to IP transfer, government subsidy and trade agreements. Not much point us trying to break the shackles tying us to China only to find the US is going to make things difficult because we aren’t chaining ourselves to them instead. To be fair, it’s not just China we have this kind of dependence on, but as you say they are the ones most likely to leverage it to our disadvantage.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
Dickface at least "pretended" to offer walls ( immigration checks), swamp draining and manufacturing.
But this is exactly the point: policies you never intend to implement are as bad as no policy at all. They basically gave the Dems a free run to stand for generalities because that is politics now.
The question is: what did Trump actually achieve in terms of walls, draining swamps (exactly the opposite I'd have thought) and supercharging the economy. Four years of saying he'd improve healthcare and it still looks like Obamacare.
As @Crucial said: " ... of two poor options one was less poor than the other."
That is politics now. Look at Australia - Smuggy McShitMyPants or Anthony Alboring. Both sides held hostage by other groups. It is terrible, but it isn't (quite) Trump terrible.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
Trump has bene unhappy withj the mail in for everyone.
Trump used mail in vote.
And the postal service is being used.
The postal service the GOP attempted to neuter in the leadup.
I don't think a worse system could be used
And yet it hasn't been a problem until the last 3 months. Go figure.
Your assumption that people turning up to rallies equates to votes is childish. Laughable in fact.
You're aware social media exists? That you're actually on a social media platform right now?
@Winger said in US Politics:
Yet he got more votes than Obama and Hillary.
Highest turnout in generations - in fact Trump is only a million shy of Obama's previous record.
doesn't ring true to me. My gut says something doesn't stack up.
Well that's a concern
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@dogmeat said in US Politics:
I just did a quick Google Now I am serious it's a wonder Sleepy Joe got any votes.
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Double the minimum wage
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Raise taxes on the rich - those earning over $400K p.a.
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Expand Obamacare
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Remove unilateral tariffs on China
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Ban assault weapons. Limit gun purchases to one per person per month!!!!
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Set up a National COVID Contact Tracing System and mandate the wearing of masks in public.
Guys a fucking Commie!
And how did Trump lose with spiritual support like this?
(Go on - watch the whole video).
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@JC do you really see trump as pushing back against china? Sure he talks, and forces some bullshit tariffs which really seem to hurt the US more, but his removal of the US from global organisations is directly responsible for placing china in a position of increased world power.
America first, yeah? -
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@JC do you really see trump as pushing back against china? Sure he talks, and forces some bullshit tariffs which really seem to hurt the US more, but his removal of the US from global organisations is directly responsible for placing china in a position of increased world power.
America first, yeah?Short answer is no. Like most things he talked a much better game than he delivered. But at least he talked about it. I’m on record as saying I don’t think he has achieved much at all.
My hope is that the next president applies a bit of leverage to at least try and reform some of the organisations that have become reputation laundering fronts for some pretty disgusting regimes. I think Trump’s biggest issue there is lack of nuance (who’d have thought!), no statesmanship or precision intervention, just all or nothing. My expectations for Biden aren’t much higher, but let’s see what kind of a team he can put together and sustain.
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@JC said in US Politics:
Short answer is no. Like most things he talked a much better game than he delivered.
He delivered a lot
Changed the supreme court balance and many other courts
New trade agreement with Canada and Mexico. This can be used as a building block for other trade agreements
Energy independence
Pulled out of this terrible (for the US) Paris accord
Starting bringing the troops home
Stopped the big pharma price rip off
Good progress with the wall with lots of opposition
Started challenging China. Rather than selling out
Nato, Put pressure on countries to front up financially
Rebuilt the military
Stood up to the terrible mainstream media
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
It's a bit silly and not really funny.
Because the issue is counting extra votes. Or counting the votes without observers checking and adding them to the wrong tally -
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
Dickface at least "pretended" to offer walls ( immigration checks), swamp draining and manufacturing.
But this is exactly the point: policies you never intend to implement are as bad as no policy at all. They basically gave the Dems a free run to stand for generalities because that is politics now.
The question is: what did Trump actually achieve in terms of walls, draining swamps (exactly the opposite I'd have thought) and supercharging the economy. Four years of saying he'd improve healthcare and it still looks like Obamacare.
As @Crucial said: " ... of two poor options one was less poor than the other."
That is politics now. Look at Australia - Smuggy McShitMyPants or Anthony Alboring. Both sides held hostage by other groups. It is terrible, but it isn't (quite) Trump terrible.
Yeah, I'm sure neither of us have the will or inclination to properly assess Trump's America performance suffice to say it trucked along pretty well pre covid and never descended into the ruinous gloom predictions 4 years ago.
He did invigorate the lower classes and received the highest vote since 1969 from non whites for a Republican party. Apparently Gallup did a poll showing most people happier than the Obama era - but whatevs. Challenging Critical Race Theory was his finest achievement in my eyes.
Most problems about him related to his personality.
I'm wrestling with an analogy of ditching Shane Warne for Daniel Vettori and expecting better results.But, resigned now that Biden leads the "greatest country in the history of humanity" so let's see how he copes with the treatment Don don got from an outrage obsessed media.
Good luck democrats, I defended Republicans on the basis that the people chose so, like Fozzie, he gets a chance to strut his stuff.
Congrats to the first female president 😉
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@ACT-Crusader said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
Can the pro democrats people please let us know what policies you're most looking forward to seeing implemented?
Genuinely interested
Not many pro-Dems here. Just some that think that of two poor options one was less poor than the other.
What I am hoping for is less pandering to (and driving) of division in the country. Don't know if that will happen but not having a narcissist liar at the helm is a start.
Some proper leadership around some of the big issues facing folk would be the next on the list.
I am hoping that the 'further from centre' thinking is put aside for a while in an attempt to heal.Is this about Trump or Biden?
Recent example was after BLM protests / ANTIFA / riots and destruction had been occurring for some time, only after polling that showed the public tide turning when it came to destruction of property and businesses, that the former VP came out publicly and called it out. CNN changed their tune also.
Why not come out early and take a strong stance against it? To me that is the definition of pandering to division.
I don’t disagree. I think everyone has fallen into a horrible hole of whataboutism and trying to outscore each other by heading to the opposite position.
My comment was directed at both, but a bit more so at Trump. Divide at conquer is a big part of his playbook. Bidens pandering is more not criticising than offering encouragementI’m certainly not a fan of either. I just see many accusations towards Trump that could equally be labelled at Biden and his actions and vice versa.
Harris has fallen into the trap as well.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
Short answer is no. Like most things he talked a much better game than he delivered.
He delivered a lot
Changed the supreme court balance and many other courts
Now I know you like a conspiracy theory, but I don't really think he knocked those former judges off.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
Short answer is no. Like most things he talked a much better game than he delivered.
He delivered a lot
Changed the supreme court balance and many other courts
Now I know you like a conspiracy theory, but I don't really think he knocked those former judges off.
Where Trump is concerned, its "fortunate coincidence"
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
It's a bit silly and not really funny.
Because the issue is counting extra votes. Or counting the votes without observers checking and adding them to the wrong tallyWrong it’s Piss funny 😂
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@Winger well, thus far it's certainly an interesting story: 4 years of continuous, unabashed frothing by the msm and dems to get the legally elected president ousted from office and then voila! 100,000 votes in Michigan and Wisconsin delivered to your door at 4am 🤔.
Nevermind, the dems love a presidential investigation so with Don Lemon's help we'll doubtless uncover the truth.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
Short answer is no. Like most things he talked a much better game than he delivered.
He delivered a lot
Changed the supreme court balance and many other courts
This isn’t really an achievement. It’s just taking advantage of an opportunity because it depends on judges dying. Obama would have done the same if he’d had enough judges go on his watch.
New trade agreement with Canada and Mexico. This can be used as a building block for other trade agreements
It’s NAFTA with a new frock.
Energy independence
That started a lot longer than 4 years ago and was mainly a function of new technologies becoming economically viable.
Pulled out of this terrible (for the US) Paris accord
Yep
Starting bringing the troops home
No, he continued bringing the troops home
Stopped the big pharma price rip off
He’s hardly dented it
Good progress with the wall with lots of opposition
But not built eh? And not paid for by the Mexicans.
Started challenging China. Rather than selling out
Not really. Some tariffs with debatable benefits. Should have done better given the almost universal backing from the public.
Nato, Put pressure on countries to front up financially
With no real effect
Rebuilt the military
For what purpose? You said you wanted all the troops home, so what’s he going to do with all that military? Which is it?
Stood up to the terrible mainstream media
And? What has it changed?
etc
lol
Edit: Look I know it’s not all his fault that he couldn’t get any bipartisan support for what he wanted, but the fact remains he hasn’t achieved as much as you say. You missed the Israel deals for which he can take credit. But really, there’s not a lot of substance in his legacy for someone so bullish. I suspect it’s because he’s a gadfly and won’t spend any intellectual capital on anything that’s not personally engaging to him. Which is common, but not great for a president.
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