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<p>I voted stay just like I will in the actual referendum.</p>
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<p>I could easily get French citizenship to replace my British so its not about me, for me its a vote against isolationism. Unlike others I don't want to change the status quo just to watch the chaos. </p> -
<p>Leave is getting some serious momentum. Mainly, I think, because the leave campaigners have been much louder than the stay. Now that leave is starting to edge ahead, I do expect the campaign for stay (of which I think the arguments are much stronger) to pick up.</p>
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<p>There have been any number of staged debates over here on the subject and I'd like to say I find them amusing because of the sheer tripe that is spouted on both sides but it's not funny because it's serious stuff. I have to say, very grudgingly, that the two heavyweight politicos that have talked the most sense are Nicola Sturgeon (the latest fish based leader of the SNP) and Hilary Benn (leftist son of Tony Benn. Leftist but went to the elitist comprehensive school that is Holland Park). Both of them espoused calm, sane views without any hyperbole. The one guy that is continuously shooting himself in both feet is Boris Johnson. He not only told lies about the cost of the EU but plastered the figures all over his bus. When called out on the lie he has admitted that while it is not the actual truth it is the best way of getting the true cost of the EU over to the British public.</p>
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<p>Yeah Boris it's good to admit you have to lie to the public to get your point across. Imbecile.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="588269" data-time="1465975881">
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<p>Ah! Here is the thread. I thought there was one but, as it turns out, I was too fucking lazy to go look. I even voted in this poll!</p>
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<p>Never mind - I've managed to find a picture that summarises both sides of the argument. Its quite a tricky pickle to split, as you can see.</p>
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<p><img src="http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif" alt="attachicon.gif"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=2037'>brexit.jpg</a></p>
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<p>Why not have both?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="588324" data-time="1465986220">
</p>
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<p>There have been any number of staged debates over here on the subject and I'd like to say I find them amusing because of the sheer tripe that is spouted on both sides but it's not funny because it's serious stuff. I have to say, very grudgingly, that the two heavyweight politicos that have talked the most sense are Nicola Sturgeon (the latest fish based leader of the SNP) and Hilary Benn (leftist son of Tony Benn. Leftist but went to the elitist comprehensive school that is Holland Park). Both of them espoused calm, sane views without any hyperbole. The one guy that is continuously shooting himself in both feet is Boris Johnson. He not only told lies about the cost of the EU but plastered the figures all over his bus. When called out on the lie he has admitted that while it is not the actual truth it is the best way of getting the true cost of the EU over to the British public.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yeah Boris it's good to admit you have to lie to the public to get your point across. Imbecile.</p>
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<p>The stay campaign have also been caught out in massive lies as well though.</p>
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<p>
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<p>Basically the stay campaign lied on not just one claim in advertising.. but many.</p>
<p>If I was a voter in the Brexit, I would be seriously sick of the blatant scare tactics and lies.</p> -
<p>I'm ashamed to say Baron that I couldn't sit through that video but I don't doubt your assertion of the remainers also lying and Osborne in particular. The scare tactics, lies and sheer bloody nonsense that is spouted but both sides is really tedious. If there was a third option of "Why don't the lot of you just fuck off" I think we'd have a clear winner. However if you do want to hear some sensible non-emotive reasoning take the time to listen to Sturgeon and Benn.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="589026" data-time="1466157514">
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<p>I've always been a fan of Boris, but he's having a shocker here.</p>
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<p>I must be missing something, as doesn't matter how I look at it, I can't see why on earth people would vote to leave.</p>
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<p>Because they've been worked up with the threat of ISIS immigrating here & 3 million turks turning up to take all their jobs & they think every law they don't like is from the EU when in fact barely any of them are, Germans telling them what shape their bananas can be despite US WINNING THE WAR!. Its the usual method - terrify the stupid & vulnerable & use that as a lever to get a very ambitious & morally bankrupt buffoon into power.</p>
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<p>There are 2 ways to get elected to power in democracy, through talent & doing whats right for your people - that is slow as fuck & hard. Or by terrifying & lying to people & getting them to sweep you in on a tide of ignorance. That works pretty well. Boris saw that his natural progression to power might at best be 3 years away & at worst be blocked by Osbourne, this way he can be PM by Xmas. Much like Trump in the US he'll destroy his party and do untold damage to his country but power is power.</p>
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<p>The whole process has been inept complacency on the in side & a couple of assholes who will do anything for power on the out side. I guess the simplest question would be, which side has been actively trying to work people up to a position where they think shooting a mother of 2 in the head is a valid response? (again, much like Trump in the US) </p> -
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/james-obriens-rant-on-the-murder-of-jo-cox-perfectly-captures-the-state-of-debate-in-britain-today/">http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/james-obriens-rant-on-the-murder-of-jo-cox-perfectly-captures-the-state-of-debate-in-britain-today/</a>
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<a class="bbc_url" href="https://goo.gl/images/g7bOZX">https://goo.gl/images/g7bOZX</a>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="589065" data-time="1466167408">
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<p><a class="bbc_url" href="http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/james-obriens-rant-on-the-murder-of-jo-cox-perfectly-captures-the-state-of-debate-in-britain-today/">http://politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/james-obriens-rant-on-the-murder-of-jo-cox-perfectly-captures-the-state-of-debate-in-britain-today/</a></p>
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<p>He makes a fantastic point that the people saying this was not a right wing anti immigrant inspired killing but a mental illness issue, had zero issue saying that the murder of Lee Rigby (soldier hacked to death in th UK) was Islamic terror & the fact his killer was a diagnosed paranoid schitzo was a red herring...</p> -
<p>What doctrine was he following that said that you should kill democratically elected people?</p>
<p>Because once someone points out that doctrine, lets condemn it,</p>
<p>Until then... in it is nothing like the Lee Rigby case no matter how hard Islamic apologists spin it</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="589068" data-time="1466169080"><p>
He makes a fantastic point that the people saying this was not a right wing anti immigrant inspired killing but a mental illness issue, had zero issue saying that the murder of Lee Rigby (soldier hacked to death in th UK) was Islamic terror & the fact his killer was a diagnosed paranoid schitzo was a red herring...</p></blockquote>
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And the people who immediately blamed Farage and the Brexit movement for this guy are the ones who loudly urge caution about jumping to conclusions when someone commits an atrocity while yelling Allah Akbar. No hypocrisy there, no none whatsoever. -
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<p>If he was a paranoid schizophrenic can you accurately say he was following ANY doctrine?</p>
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<p>You can say he was inspired and instructed by a doctrine most definitely.</p> -
<p>Saw some footage of demonstrations happening on what I assume to be the Thames River. Boats getting a little bit close to each other. Bob Geldorf having a good old rave off a bridge at some guy called ?Farage?</p>
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<p>Fuck its a bit mental all over. Both sides.</p> -
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<p>Fair enough. </p>
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<p>Just like this guy thought the threats of leaving were worth listening to the little voices in his head? All of us think some bad shit, but we don't act on it because society.</p>
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<p>Nowhere does it occur in the 'leave campaign' propaganda to go out and kill people who dont agree with your side.</p>
<p>He was not acting on any form of instruction from an individual, group or ideology.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="589104" data-time="1466210505">
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<p>Saw some footage of demonstrations happening on what I assume to be the Thames River. Boats getting a little bit close to each other. Bob Geldorf having a good old rave off a bridge at some guy called ?Farage?</p>
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<p>Fuck its a bit mental all over. Both sides.</p>
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<p>Some rich prick (Geldof) hired a boat to ruin a Brexit propaganda flotilla... that will be a dead set vote winner.....</p>
Brexit