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Sorry for the thread diversion, I did start it afterall. I know the likes of Stargazer will not be impressed. @akan004 if you want to continue the debate we can always start a thread in Off Topic
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@No-Quarter A lot of things in our day to day lives are open to interpretation. I have no problems with swearing for example- I honestly see nothing wrong with it. But I choose not to swear when in the company of certain mates and family members as I know they are strongly against it, and I do it out of respect for them. I just think the same consistency should be applied to people's religious beliefs as well. As long as they don't impose it on you, just let it go. If a player finds solace and peace in his faith, and makes him a better player for it, then who are we to mock him for his beliefs.
Edit: Sorry, just saw your last post. That's it from me on this topic as well. Time to move on to rugby again.
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@No-Quarter said in Wallabies v Springboks:
Sorry for the thread diversion, I did start it afterall. I know the likes of Stargazer will not be impressed. @akan004 if you want to continue the debate we can always start a thread in Off Topic
I'll solve that for you by making just one comment on this matter of my own:
I don't understand the need of atheists to make negative comments about a group of players, who just - as an expression of their religious beliefs - say thanks after a game. It's not like anyone is forced to participate. I don't share the religious views of these players, but I can fully respect that they have those views and express them this way.
Just like praying before or after a game is an expression of one's religion, the haka before the game is an expression of one's culture. Both are perfectly fine, although I don't easily see an All Black or other NZ rep being able to back out of doing the haka (so less freedom there).
I can't stand people who try to force their (religious) views on me, but that applies both to people with a religious view and atheists. I also can't stand people who don't respect the freedom of (other) people to have religious or atheist views and to express/practice these views.
But indeed, to remain OCD slash nerdy about posting in the right thread, express those views in a thread in "off-topic".
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If a religious person wants to try and push their views on me then I'm more then happy to have a debate with them about why I would never believe something that has absolutely no evidence supporting it. Freedom of speech is hugely important to me, I don't want to stop religious people expressing what they believe in - quite the opposite - I want them to have that debate instead of shutting down any conversation with "I'm allowed to believe what I want so go away".
If someone wants to believe they have leprechauns living at the bottom of their garden they are free to do so. But they shouldn't be surprised when people say "That sounds like nonsense, have you got any evidence to support that claim?". That's not someone "forcing their views" on another person, that's someone logically questioning whether what someone believes has any basis in truth.
Shutting downs people's right to question ideas is a massive step backwards, and contradicts everything modern Science is based on.
I like to ask questions. If that makes me one of those people you "can't stand", then so be it.
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I did try to leave the discussion but Stargazer left a nice piece of bait...
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@nostrildamus said in Religious type discussion:
@jegga yes Mayans in Central America have traditionally prayed for chocolate:
Ixcanil, Goddess of Seed, hear me.
Ixtoq, Goddess of Rain, help me.
Ixcacao, Goddess of Chocolate, see my tears and come to my aid.Sweet, is there a prayer to summon Nigella* and a pile of Whittaker's?
*in the original ad , she looked way milfier in those ones and a bit scary in the recent one.
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Ok, it's gone off topic and I'm bored at work, so I'm going to expand on why I disagreed with your view that Kirwan was being arrogant or whatever.
In my opinion, there it little more things arrogant than religion itself. The fact that you can't wear what you want in certain countries, but then when people from these countries think they are entitled to wear their full coverings for everyday life in other parts of the world. Including local governments, court systems, schools etc. If that's not arrogance, then what is?
And to address the point of Saturdays prayer. Well, hang on a second, those players decided to get together in the middle of the field and show the world their religion. They know they are role models, they know that kids mimic them, they know that when they get down and do that, plenty of children will be going - "why are they doing that", "can we do that", "if I do that will I be a sports star", which is effectively shoving it down their throat. That's rather arrogant isn't it?
Athiests, on the whole, are certainly in no way more arrogant than religious types with their views. In fact, the tolerance they must have, as religion is everywhere in society, is higher than most.
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I love the fact that one of the mods (not me) decided to start this new thread from the "you can pray for chocolate" post by @jegga
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TBH I was short on time, so hadnt trawled back further to see if anymore should be moved, but I thought the point was made
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@MajorRage said in Religious type discussion:
Ok, it's gone off topic and I'm bored at work, so I'm going to expand on why I disagreed with your view that Kirwan was being arrogant or whatever.
In my opinion, there it little more things arrogant than religion itself. The fact that you can't wear what you want in certain countries, but then when people from these countries think they are entitled to wear their full coverings for everyday life in other parts of the world. Including local governments, court systems, schools etc. If that's not arrogance, then what is?
And to address the point of Saturdays prayer. Well, hang on a second, those players decided to get together in the middle of the field and show the world their religion. They know they are role models, they know that kids mimic them, they know that when they get down and do that, plenty of children will be going - "why are they doing that", "can we do that", "if I do that will I be a sports star", which is effectively shoving it down their throat. That's rather arrogant isn't it?
No.
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Ultimately the world is a pretty evil, fucked up place full of evil, fucked up people. If believing in some god-like entity gives people hope and happiness then good on them. So long as that faith does not affect anyone else who really cares. If the prayer session on Saturday was in fact for Leilefano then I see no problem. I believe he's religious himself and as someone literally fighting for his life he probably greatly appreciated it. No harm done.
That stuff is benign, but when religion basically becomes law and has an affect (even deadly)on people who want no part of it, then that is a big big problem.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Religious type discussion:
> > That stuff is benign, but when religion basically becomes law and has an affect (even deadly)on people who want no part of it, then that is a big big problem.``` I agree, that prayer is about as meaningful as someone looking up at the sky afer scoring a try etc. If it means a lot to them, then that's cool and it certianly doesn't hurt anyone by them doing so
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@Hooroo said in Religious type discussion:
Why doesn't the ''' ''' quote thingy work for me?
don't thnk you use those??
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Religious type discussion