Bledisloe 2



  • @taniwharugby said in Bledisloe 2:

    @MN5 least you can look up to Ardie!

    Everyone does at his height



  • @Nepia said in Bledisloe 2:

    @MN5 said in Bledisloe 2:

    @Billy-Tell said in Bledisloe 2:

    @Nepia said in Bledisloe 2:

    It's funny reading this thread and seeing the comments on Rieko - seriously, how have people only just now figured out how good he is?

    Yeah, it's almost as annoying as know-it-all posts.

    Nepia must know him. They're on a first name basis

    I can't even spell his name. He's 5 tests into his career, he's been playing Super rugby, he was an age grade star ... I just find it weird that certain posters are just cottoning on to how good he is now, I have no insight, but have watched him play.

    Anyway, weird thing for you two to get your knickers in a twist about. 😉

    You could have been talking about Isaia Toeava for a minute there. Except he was pretty shit early and at best barely serviceable for most of his AB career



  • @canefan said in Bledisloe 2:

    @Nepia said in Bledisloe 2:

    @MN5 said in Bledisloe 2:

    @Billy-Tell said in Bledisloe 2:

    @Nepia said in Bledisloe 2:

    It's funny reading this thread and seeing the comments on Rieko - seriously, how have people only just now figured out how good he is?

    Yeah, it's almost as annoying as know-it-all posts.

    Nepia must know him. They're on a first name basis

    I can't even spell his name. He's 5 tests into his career, he's been playing Super rugby, he was an age grade star ... I just find it weird that certain posters are just cottoning on to how good he is now, I have no insight, but have watched him play.

    Anyway, weird thing for you two to get your knickers in a twist about. 😉

    You could have been talking about Isaia Toeava for a minute there. Except he was pretty shit early and at best barely serviceable for most of his AB career

    Nooooooo , what have you done?



  • @NTA said in Bledisloe 2:

    The main thing he pointed out was the little decisions that didn't go our way that could have switched momentum. Gave the example of a DHP knock-on that was called versus the Barrett knock-on that wasn't, and could potentially have been a penalty to us with Perenara grabbing the ball after it bounced from an offside position.

    Wobs got a penalty 20 seconds later when Hames went in from the side anyways, so doesn't matter.
    The problem is, Cheika keeps banging on about how the decisions were unfavorable to the Wallabies, pointing out those 50/50s or maybe wrong decisions that went against them, but he doesn't recognize the two disallowed tries (Ben Smith & Retallick) which might have been given any other day (thought Ben Smith's would have been a try in 90 out of 100 games, and for Retallick, Owens clearly signalled a try with the pointing at the grounding).

    The point is, you win some, you lose some of these decisions and you just have to roll with it, there is no point in banging on about them, and that's what makes him appear unprofessional. If you always only point out the decisions that went against you, you're delusional and will continue to live in a fantasy world where everything and everyone is against you. It's childish and not befitting of a rugby coach, let alone a tier 1 national team's.



  • @NTA would it have shifted momentum much if Hannigan had been binned? How about if when your whole back row is standing up and leaving the scrum before it's finished at every scrum as it's going backwards, they get penalised every time?



  • @Bones Or when Hannigan detached from the back paddling scrum which led to the Genia break and Foley try. What should have been a penalty to the ABs resulted in a five pointer to the Wallabies.



  • I don't know what his aim is in highlighting these things - well the one with Hanigan getting tipped is obviously player safety and consistency in foul play laws. Maybe he's trying to put public pressure on referees? I don't know.

    Like all of us, do you think he's looking at the penalties that went his way and saying "shit I better draw attention to those because I hated the way that turned out!" ? Nah probably not.

    I hear people label his comments as "unprofessional" and based on past form there's a case for saying he's out of line. I'm not sure what "professional" remarks from a coach are supposed to look like - there isn't really a guide book on it besides not bringing the game into disrepute.

    Does anyone think Cheika's remarks from the press conference bring the game into disrepute? its on YouTube.

    Mostly though it seems to boil down to people saying he's got a bad case of sour grapes. Not going to change that perception until you do the same thing after you win a game, I suppose.

    I've just watched the AB presser and its about 4 minutes shorter, and fairly straightforward of course. "We won. Sweet as. Move on."

    No questions about broadband, disappointingly.



  • @NTA By coincidence I've just watched both press conferences. Certainly Cheika is playing the victim at the start but the rest of his comments are fine. He even cracked some jokes.



  • As an aside:

    @Bovidae said in Bledisloe 2:

    @NTA By coincidence I've just watched both press conferences. Certainly Cheika is playing the victim at the start but the rest of his comments are fine. He even cracked some jokes.

    I mentioned above that the AB presser is 4 minutes shorter (7 minutes v about 11 for Cheika).

    I noted below that the Lions Third Test the visitors PC was about 18 minutes while home side about 12 - so shorter as well. Wonder if there is a pattern there for home v away teams.

    End Random Thought.



  • As for the conduct in the coaches box: I believe I've said before that if Shag & Co want to sit there like they've been forced to attend their least favourite cousin's wedding, they're more than welcome.

    Cheika may go OTT but that's his business. You may think he looks like a dick doing it, and that's your business.



  • I often wondered if the ineptitude that is the ARU appreciates at this stage that any publicity (short of a win) keeps their code in the papers, ergo it's not a bad thing.
    I was convinced last year's whinge fest by every Aus rugby pundit was purely a publicity stunt in a landscape losing out to AFL and NRL finals publicity.

    But mostly it's what Nick suggests. It's just Cheika's way - take it or leave it, he's got more important things to worry about.

    At least he got his team to bite this week



  • Cheika needs to speak to his employers about the scheduling of the Bledisloe Cup games. My understanding is that the ARU have asked for the first RC game to be in Sydney, so Aust always hosts NZ to start with.



  • @Bovidae yep. I believe it was a 10 year deal with NSW govt done about 5 or so years ago.



  • And that isn't a big deal IF say we get some warmup matches to get a bit of sting in the legs and just perhaps get a few suspension weeks burned 😉



  • @NTA Shag said similar, in that the real difference between the teams was the first 40 when the Wallabies all hadn't played in 4 weeks

    As clever as technology and training methods develop there is no substitiute for age-old match conditioning



  • @NTA said in Bledisloe 2:

    And that isn't a big deal IF say we get some warmup matches to get a bit of sting in the legs and just perhaps get a few suspension weeks burned 😉

    Super rugby finals make good warmups if you are competitive



  • @NTA said in Bledisloe 2:

    As for the conduct in the coaches box: I believe I've said before that if Shag & Co want to sit there like they've been forced to attend their least favourite cousin's wedding, they're more than welcome.

    Cheika may go OTT but that's his business. You may think he looks like a dick doing it, and that's your business.

    At the same time though, his business is Australia's business, isn't it? I've seen plenty of comments from Aussie fans who sick of his victim complex and siege mentality bullshit.



  • @Siam said in Bledisloe 2:

    @NTA Shag said similar, in that the real difference between the teams was the first 40 when the Wallabies all hadn't played in 4 weeks

    As clever as technology and training methods develop there is no substitiute for age-old match conditioning

    If only there was a way to organise an in house warmup game in a five week period! Obviously umpossible.



  • @Kirwan said in Bledisloe 2:

    @Siam said in Bledisloe 2:

    @NTA Shag said similar, in that the real difference between the teams was the first 40 when the Wallabies all hadn't played in 4 weeks

    As clever as technology and training methods develop there is no substitiute for age-old match conditioning

    If only there was a way to organise an in house warmup game in a five week period! Obviously umpossible.

    Or a game with our Island neighbours. Or Japan.....



  • @NTA said in Bledisloe 2:

    As for the conduct in the coaches box: I believe I've said before that if Shag & Co want to sit there like they've been forced to attend their least favourite cousin's wedding, they're more than welcome.

    Cheika may go OTT but that's his business. You may think he looks like a dick doing it, and that's your business.

    I just wonder how effective he can be as a coach when he comes across as the worst sort of rabid one-eyed fan.

    I mean I have mates (I know, I know) who act like Chieka does - histrionically questioning every decision as if it was the fifth trumpet of the apocalypse that sounded rather than a refs whistle.

    Admire their passion but don't listen to a word they say and occasionally have to simply tell them to shut the fuck up!

    That's fine with your drinking buddy - but your coach?

    You don't have to sit there sphinx like as Shag does - but I know who comes across more like someone who has an opinion I might actually care to hear



  • @Kirwan said in Bledisloe 2:

    If only there was a way to organise an in house warmup game in a five week period! Obviously umpossible.

    Also a good point - one of the issues being we didn't have available top-flight players, as our Premier club seasons were still running up until the weekend.

    EDIT: Naturally, organising games with those clubs who were NOT involved in Premier Club finals could also have been done. And I don't know why we didn't. We showed the last 120 minutes of our Test rugby was superior to the first 40.



  • @NTA A bit concerning that the Wallaby coaches didn't see this coming - after pretty much the exact same issue last year - Brumbies only team in playoffs - get spanked Bledisloe 1 in Sydney.



  • @KiwiMurph I think the game of 3 halves is a good example of making a game for the sake of needing a game, especially for those teams not involved in the finals, and for the Wallabies, surely a probable vs possible type match up would have been the go.



  • @dogmeat said in Bledisloe 2:
    ...

    Admire their passion but don't listen to a word they say and occasionally have to simply tell them to shut the fuck up!

    That's fine with your drinking buddy - but your coach?

    You don't have to sit there sphinx like as Shag does - but I know who comes across more like someone who has an opinion I might actually care to hear

    I quite liked Heyneke Meyer - was passionate about his side, showed it in the coaches box, but was a good bloke and not a whiny little bitch like Cheika



  • @Stockcar86 said in Bledisloe 2:

    @dogmeat said in Bledisloe 2:
    ...

    Admire their passion but don't listen to a word they say and occasionally have to simply tell them to shut the fuck up!

    That's fine with your drinking buddy - but your coach?

    You don't have to sit there sphinx like as Shag does - but I know who comes across more like someone who has an opinion I might actually care to hear

    I quite liked Heyneke Meyer - was passionate about his side, showed it in the coaches box, but was a good bloke and not a whiny little bitch like Cheika

    Shag loved his beers too!! 😉



  • What annoys me about Cheika is he whines about Rettalick but is strangely quiet about the multiple infringements at scrumtime and around the park that should have lead to several yellow cards for his guys. Being destroyed like that at scrumtime can you really claim you should have won?



  • @DMX said in Bledisloe 2:

    What annoys me about Cheika is he whines about Rettalick but is strangely quiet about the multiple infringements at scrumtime and around the park that should have lead to several yellow cards for his guys. Being destroyed like that at scrumtime can you really claim you should have won?

    Do you expect an opposition coach to point those things out? That would be a first for any coach.

    It's the unhinged reactions in the box that annoys me because it gets far more attention than it deserves during the telecast. IMO it's not a great look, and seems a tad unstable for the head coach.



  • @DMX said in Bledisloe 2:

    Being destroyed like that at scrumtime can you really claim you should have won?

    When the ultimate difference between winning and losing is securing a kick off (which it was), then fuck yes, you have every right to claim that you should have won.

    That's different from blaming refs and in the presser Cheika went to great lengths to clarify where his disappointment lay - at his team.

    That's not to conflate the issues with his Retallick incident whining.

    Similarly if the Aussies played poorly (as some here have stated) and still were one kick off reception from winning, I'd fucken hate to see them improve and play well.

    We won, and did it fucking cleverly but that don't mean the Aussies weren't in it or played poorly.

    #entitlement



  • @Siam said in Bledisloe 2:

    When the ultimate difference between winning and losing is securing a kick off

    As I said after the Lions 3 debacle where people were claiming it wasn't a contest, Read has been contesting kickoffs like that for ages. It's a legit tactic, and pays off big time.

    We went missing for kickoffs in Bled 1 though. Got reamed in that area.



  • @nzzp was interesting hearing OWens telling the kickers to make sure players were behind at the restart, something they been very slack on and wonder if since Gatland highlighting that in that final play has made them take notice.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 2:

    It's the unhinged reactions in the box that annoys me because it gets far more attention than it deserves during the telecast. IMO it's not a great look, and seems a tad unstable for the head coach.

    I'm going to be in a very small minority, but I love it. And most of my friends love it too.

    I don't know when we all decided that a coach needs to sit motionless in the box for all 80 minutes. I like that Cheika feels the way that I do, that he rides the highs and lows. I found it refreshing when he came to the Tahs, and I still like it.

    I'm not a mad Cheika acolyte, though he shepherded my Tahs to a title so will forever be in my heart. My criticism of him comes back to selection and tactics far more than behavior in the box or the presser.

    And of course you guys hate him, and that's fine. I'm happy for him to be a bit of a lightening rod, it might even take a bit of focus off our players. Our game is always better having a few villains I reckon.
    .



  • @barbarian said in Bledisloe 2:

    @ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 2:

    It's the unhinged reactions in the box that annoys me because it gets far more attention than it deserves during the telecast. IMO it's not a great look, and seems a tad unstable for the head coach.

    I'm going to be in a very small minority, but I love it. And most of my friends love it too.

    I don't know when we all decided that a coach needs to sit motionless in the box for all 80 minutes. I like that Cheika feels the way that I do, that he rides the highs and lows. I found it refreshing when he came to the Tahs, and I still like it.

    I'm not a mad Cheika acolyte, though he shepherded my Tahs to a title so will forever be in my heart. My criticism of him comes back to selection and tactics far more than behavior in the box or the presser.

    And of course you guys hate him, and that's fine. I'm happy for him to be a bit of a lightening rod, it might even take a bit of focus off our players. Our game is always better having a few villains I reckon.
    .

    Well said.....I love it too 🙂 it's very entertaining.

    Some fans need to stop taking everything so seriously, its a game and should be watched for enjoyment and entertainment.



  • As I said above nothing wrong with passion but you have to question a coach who is so often wrong - not just in the heat of the moment but also after he has had time to reflect.

    I don't mind his histrionics at all. Just imagine what the Wallabies might be capable of if they had a coach?



  • You need to separate the animation/passion in the coaches box, which is funny as hell to watch (and something Meyer did), to his demeanour in the pressers.



  • @barbarian

    I don't hate him, I just think he comes across as a bit of a cock.

    I have always found it odd that these coaches can in fact sit there almost emotionless most of the time, I get pretty animated as the coach of my sons U12 team, but nothing to that extent.

    That said, I think if the cameras didn't go to him every time they know he is going to explode, maybe go more often at times when they know he will be calmer.

    Those explosions in the coaches box coupled with his rants in pressers dont paint the ideal picture of a coach in control, but then I guess if the ARU and it's sponsors had an issue with it, they'd tell him to dial it back a bit.



  • @taniwharugby said in Bledisloe 2:

    @barbarian

    Those explosions in the coaches box coupled with his rants in pressers dont paint the ideal picture of a coach in control, but then I guess if the ARU and it's sponsors had an issue alternative with it, they'd tell him to dial it back a bit.

    Fixed



  • @barbarian said in Bledisloe 2:

    And of course you guys hate him, and that's fine.

    Certainly don't hate him, far from it. Just think that wearing your emotions on your sleeve and being so one-eyed isn't best for his team.



  • @Siam

    Agree to disagree. The last kick off did not make the game , it was the whole 80 minutes and a big part of that was the Aussie scrum being destroyed. That they were in the game says more about a lack of scrum penalties and yellow cards than anything. If the Aussies think that was a good all round performance good on them but 9 out of 10 that performance would warrant a hiding.



  • Owens explained his decision about the scrums: while it was going backwards, that isn't a crime if they're on their feet and bound.



  • @barbarian said in Bledisloe 2:

    @ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 2:

    It's the unhinged reactions in the box that annoys me because it gets far more attention than it deserves during the telecast. IMO it's not a great look, and seems a tad unstable for the head coach.

    I'm going to be in a very small minority, but I love it. And most of my friends love it too.

    I don't know when we all decided that a coach needs to sit motionless in the box for all 80 minutes. I like that Cheika feels the way that I do, that he rides the highs and lows. I found it refreshing when he came to the Tahs, and I still like it.

    I'm not a mad Cheika acolyte, though he shepherded my Tahs to a title WITH THE HELP OF POOR REFFING FROM JOUBERT so will forever be in my heart. My criticism of him comes back to selection and tactics far more than behavior in the box or the presser.

    And of course you guys hate him, and that's fine. I'm happy for him to be a bit of a lightening rod, it might even take a bit of focus off our players. Our game is always better having a few villains I reckon.
    .

    If only he was so animated for correct refereeing during that final call on Richie aye 🙂

    I don't mind a bit of reaction that is only natural during a contest, but every call?


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