Should the Crusaders change their name?



  • @taniwharugby said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @canefan think Plainsmen was the other option I heard on the radio on Monday...sounds more like a gang!

    Not very exciting.....



  • @taniwharugby said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @canefan think Plainsmen was the other option I heard on the radio on Monday...sounds more like a gang!

    Clansmen?

    ... no?



  • @booboo how dare you make it about gender 😁



  • @Stargazer said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @Damo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    I think they should change the name. The crusades were a ghastly period in European/middle East history. The term is offensive and should not be glorified by using it in a team.

    I have thought that for a while, but given what happened I am now convinced the name should go. Am I really the only one here who thinks this?

    People who think that the word or name crusaders only relate to past events from 800 years ago, fail to see the link with what's been happening in the Middle East in the last few decades (probably longer). For many muslims, the words crusade and crusaders have a similar meaning to jihad and jihadist today. Western military interventions in the Middle East have caused a lot of misery & fear, even if they were started to fight dictators, Taliban or ISIS, and are often seen/portrayed as modern crusades, esp if there are civilian casualties. Whether local muslim groups in Chch see it that way, I don't know, but that's why it's good that the Crusaders talk to them about it. Who knows, maybe it's only the imagery of the crosses and swords they'd like to change. Wait and see.

    This.

    I won't say I am an expert, but there is a perception amongst many Muslim people (rightly or wrongly) that recent Western adventures and misadventures in the Middle East are a continuation of Crusade.

    I think the name is inappropriate and should change.



  • Lots of people think all sorts of things that are incorrect. The task there is to educate people and focus on what’s really important.

    I see lots of people speaking for Muslims, has any Muslim ever complained about a rugby team name?



  • @Kirwan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    Lots of people think all sorts of things that are incorrect. The task there is to educate people and focus on what’s really important.

    I see lots of people speaking for Muslims, has any Muslim ever complained about a rugby team name?

    No one has complained of anything. I don't even know who kicked off the discussion, was it started by something said by the franchise or someone in the media? Do white people complain about Saracens being used as a team name?



  • @Damo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @Stargazer said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @Damo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    I think they should change the name. The crusades were a ghastly period in European/middle East history. The term is offensive and should not be glorified by using it in a team.

    I have thought that for a while, but given what happened I am now convinced the name should go. Am I really the only one here who thinks this?

    **People who think that the word or name crusaders only relate to past events from 800 years ago, fail to see the link with what's been happening in the Middle East in the last few decades (probably longer). For many muslims, the words crusade and crusaders have a similar meaning to jihad and jihadist today. Western military interventions in the Middle East have caused a lot of misery & fear, even if they were started to fight dictators, Taliban or ISIS, and are often seen/portrayed as modern crusades, esp if there are civilian casualties. Whether local muslim groups in Chch see it that way, I don't know, but that's why it's good that the Crusaders talk to them about it. Who knows, maybe it's only the imagery of the crosses and swords they'd like to change. Wait and see.

    This.

    I won't say I am an expert, but there is a perception amongst many Muslim people (rightly or wrongly) that recent Western adventures and misadventures in the Middle East are a continuation of Crusade.

    I think the name is inappropriate and should change.

    Source?



  • @canefan a couple of anonymous twitter users that Stuff turned into a headline. The standard gutter journalism they are so famous for.



  • @No-Quarter said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @canefan a couple of anonymous twitter users that Stuff turned into a headline. The standard gutter journalism they are so famous for.

    Irresponsible. If the local muslim community found the name offensive I'd say they've had 22 years and counting to voice their disapproval....



  • I’m a Crusaders fan, so some might think I’m blinkered in my view of this. But for me this smacks of looking for something that simply is not there.

    I get that sometimes certain events can lead to a situation where it is the “right time to have that debate”, but there needs to be a genuine issue to debate rather than some convenient headline. The name of a team that has been well known for more than two decades in my view does not remotely fit that.

    On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate.

    That debate's a lot more one sided. Interested in the justification for allowing semi automatics on an A-class license; seems you probably need to have a clear and present need for it. Professional pest control .22 is the only one I can think about, where rapid fire really makes a difference.



  • @nzzp said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate.

    That debate's a lot more one sided. Interested in the justification for allowing semi automatics on an A-class license; seems you probably need to have a clear and present need for it. Professional pest control .22 is the only one I can think about, where rapid fire really makes a difference.

    There was a farmer who was reported to have handed his semi auto guns into police days after the massacre. Said he used to hunt and control pests with them but in light of the tragedy was willing to accept a little inconvenience. It might take him a little more effort but there are other less rapid guns he can use to do the job. I can't see why this can't be so for everyone. No one needs these high calibre weapons



  • @canefan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    No one needs these high calibre weapons

    Agree -- but I'm happy to just make it really hard for people with more significant background checks. Professional pest control is one area where semi auto would make a difference -- so to me, that's straight into Class E with stringent checks.

    People who really really want guns like that can probably get them eventually - from gangs, or other means.



  • @canefan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @nzzp said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate.

    That debate's a lot more one sided. Interested in the justification for allowing semi automatics on an A-class license; seems you probably need to have a clear and present need for it. Professional pest control .22 is the only one I can think about, where rapid fire really makes a difference.

    There was a farmer who was reported to have handed his semi auto guns into police days after the massacre. Said he used to hunt and control pests with them but in light of the tragedy was willing to accept a little inconvenience. It might take him a little more effort but there are other less rapid guns he can use to do the job. I can't see why this can't be so for everyone. No one needs these high calibre weapons

    What are hunters going to hunt with? Crossbow? Or are you saying that there is no need for Semi Auto weapons (which I would agree with)

    I don't have a problem with Bolt Action weapons although I prefer a semi auto when rabbiting, but it isn't a must have



  • @Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    What are hunters going to hunt with? Crossbow? Or are you saying that there is no need for Semi Auto weapons (which I would agree with)

    saying that semi-auto weapons are very rarely a requirement, so should be under far stricter controls. Class E, and tighter controls. Some people do get real benefit from them, but it's rare (the example of professional pest controllers being one)



  • @nzzp said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @canefan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    No one needs these high calibre weapons

    Agree -- but I'm happy to just make it really hard for people with more significant background checks. Professional pest control is one area where semi auto would make a difference -- so to me, that's straight into Class E with stringent checks.

    People who really really want guns like that can probably get them eventually - from gangs, or other means.2

    Once they get the gun it is apparently not difficult to obtain a high capacity magazine. Anything that looks like an assault rifle has to go



  • @ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    I’m a Crusaders fan, so some might think I’m blinkered in my view of this. But for me this smacks of looking for something that simply is not there.

    I get that sometimes certain events can lead to a situation where it is the “right time to have that debate”, but there needs to be a genuine issue to debate rather than some convenient headline. The name of a team that has been well known for more than two decades in my view does not remotely fit that.

    On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate.

    On the other hand I'm a Crusaders fan too, and it doesn’t bother me if we change the name or not.
    I support the team because it’s where I’m from and branding doesn’t change that stance.

    The right approach (in my opinion) is to hold discussions with the Muslim community and make a considered decision based on that feedback.



  • @Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @canefan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @nzzp said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    @ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate.

    That debate's a lot more one sided. Interested in the justification for allowing semi automatics on an A-class license; seems you probably need to have a clear and present need for it. Professional pest control .22 is the only one I can think about, where rapid fire really makes a difference.

    There was a farmer who was reported to have handed his semi auto guns into police days after the massacre. Said he used to hunt and control pests with them but in light of the tragedy was willing to accept a little inconvenience. It might take him a little more effort but there are other less rapid guns he can use to do the job. I can't see why this can't be so for everyone. No one needs these high calibre weapons

    What are hunters going to hunt with? Crossbow? Or are you saying that there is no need for Semi Auto weapons (which I would agree with)

    I don't have a problem with Bolt Action weapons although I prefer a semi auto when rabbiting, but it isn't a must have

    I meant no to semi auto guns



  • @SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?

    This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it



  • @canefan said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:

    Once they get the gun it is apparently not difficult to obtain a high capacity magazine. Anything that looks like an assault rifle has to go

    It's not what it looks like, it's functionality. Hence why any reasonable argument has to include rifles like the Ruger Mini 14.


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