CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies



  • Wouldn’t mind if Guptil, Munro and Latham turned up to this cup though



  • @Hooroo said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Wouldn’t mind if Guptil, Munro and Latham turned up to this cup though

    Happy if that's Munro's last chance saloon though.

    Bring in Nicholls.



  • Fun fact, this is the second time Munro and Guptill have both been dismissed for ducks opening the innings. We won last time too! Last time it was Rossco's magnificent 181 (plus contributions by Kane and Latham) that pulled us out of trouble.



  • @Hooroo said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Wouldn’t mind if Guptil, Munro and Latham turned up to this cup though

    Yep, as much as Henry wheeling out the pie cart at the death was as predictable as the sun rising in the morning, there are a few passengers in the mix too.

    Thankfully the usual legends are firing



  • Another fun fact! This is the second time at a world cup both openers have gone for a golden duck. Last time was 2015 Sri Lanka vs Afghanistan, and Sri Lanka (batting second) recovered to win that too.

    There's only one other example of it in all ODIs, and that was by Zimbabwe vs West Indies, but on that occasion Zimbabwe ended up getting thumped by 80 odd.



  • That was closer than it needed to be - just as well Boult is a good fielder as well as a good bowler, and Neesham is a better death bowler than he looks.



  • @Donsteppa said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Henry wheeling out the pie cart at the death was as predictable as the sun rising in the morning,

    Or Hansen picking SBW....



  • Best ODI I have watched in ages.
    Had it all and the good guys won.



  • Felt like beating the poms.

    They bloody love the Windies here.

    Extremely satisfying. Seem a bit annoyed about MOTM ... let’s mske it easy. Kane’s innings difference between winning and losing badly. Braithwait between almost winning and losing badly.



  • @MajorRage
    Usually I don't mind the poms in cricket but now I'm hoping they are knocked out. Seriously arrogant fanbase - winning tight is "proof" we are just lucky but let's ignore them losing to Sri Lanka+ Pakistan and still not being guaranteed a semi.

    Nice to see another Tauranga boy with the winning play.



  • Kind of annoyed I missed this one especially seeing as I thought it was being played tonight



  • I am sure the coaches won't learn, but after the match we should

    1. Give the next 2 starts to Nicholls, Munro is a failure
    2. If we play Henry he needs to be bowled through. The guy is not a death bowler


  • @canefan said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    I am sure the coaches won't learn, but after the match we should

    1. Give the next 2 starts to Nicholls, Munro is a failure
    2. If we play Henry he needs to be bowled through. The guy is not a death bowler

    Logic dictates Henry is due a few wickets but agree. We have other superior death options. No, Southee is not one of these anymore.



  • @MajorRage said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Seem a bit annoyed about MOTM ... let’s mske it easy. Kane’s innings difference between winning and losing badly. Braithwait between almost winning and losing badly.

    Despite his great knock Kane handed in a team sheet with Munro and Milne on it.

    Give it to Brathwaite.



  • That Ferguson chap is really ruining your "stoic, proud, yet humble Kiwi" vibe with some of his wicket celebrations.

    And that dirty mo.



  • I just don't know why the selectors went back to Munro when Nicholls seemingly won the spot at the end of our summer.



  • @MN5 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @canefan said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    I am sure the coaches won't learn, but after the match we should

    1. Give the next 2 starts to Nicholls, Munro is a failure
    2. If we play Henry he needs to be bowled through. The guy is not a death bowler

    Logic dictates Henry is due a few wickets but agree. We have other superior death options. No, Southee is not one of these anymore.

    He can still take wickets at the start. Neesh did a good job, I reckon CDG could do a job too. Henry? No



  • @hydro11 Hesson said Nicholls hide injury niggles at the first game, so not fully fit, side I think. Then Guppy and Munro performed. Crickets not good at changing winning combinations



  • @NTA said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    That Ferguson chap is really ruining your "stoic, proud, yet humble Kiwi" vibe with some of his wicket celebrations.

    And that dirty mo.

    Hypocrites proudly stand over here behind me!

    I'm making inquiries for wee locky to be my godson - love that lad 😁

    (warner mumble mumble, self awareness mumble mumble does he have to mumble...)



  • Just got home from the game after not being online. Interesting to read the thread start to finish and just so many premature calls made ....

    Looks like NZ are half an excellent side and half a poor one. It's basically Tauranga keeping things together. What a maestro Kane is as usual walking to the wicket after just one ball.

    Great atmosphere at the game. English fans supporting the Windies and NZ fans mostly in their early 20s and mostly pissed.



  • @rotated said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @MajorRage said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Seem a bit annoyed about MOTM ... let’s mske it easy. Kane’s innings difference between winning and losing badly. Braithwait between almost winning and losing badly.

    Despite his great knock Kane handed in a team sheet with Munro and Milne on it.

    Give it to Brathwaite.

    Que?

    Re MOTM Brathwaite made it entertaining but he fucked up at the end.

    6 needed of 7 balls. Take the single. 5 off the over ... or take on the best outfield catcher in the opposition...

    Loses MOTM for losing the unlosable



  • Just watched the little highlights package, and that over from Henry was truly shit bowling. It wasn't just that Brathwaite was totally in the zone. He was being served up dire, DIRE deliveries. Wide full tosses. He is not a death bowler. Bowl him out.

    Also, we need to fix our opening partnership woes. Yes, Kane is one of the best ever, but he shouldn't have to do everything runs-wise every bloody game because those around him do stupid shit.



  • Ok.

    Have run the numbers.

    We're not guaranteed a semi yet.

    Some very plausible outcomes can see us missing out.

    Not going to run through them all but ...



  • Henrys pie chucking doesnt prove my point. It just illustrates it. Southee has bowled overs like that before, Boult has as well. A bad performance doesnt mean you are bad.
    However......if you are batting 9/10/11 and being picked as a bowler.. your captain needs to be able to throw you the ball at ANY stage of an innings and know you have a good chance of advancing the teams cause. Not 100%, but maybe 40% of really improving it, 55% chance of just maintaining the status quo and 5% of hurting your team.
    Henry fails at that miserably, after the first 15 overs he has a much higher chance of hurting your team than helping them.
    If you were captain of the Black Caps and it was a close game... how confident do you feel calling up Henry to bowl after the 15 over mark? He has no variations and is mentally fragile. He is a fair weather bowler and when the going gets tough, he seems to lose it more often than not.

    I know some facile supporters just screech STATS!!!.. but that analysis is cringey.



  • If anyone needs to be dropped it's Latham. Averaging 8 with the bat and we saw some suspect keeping against South Africa. Surely Blundell can't do worse?



  • @Bronze with us all but assured a SF place I would like to see Nicholls, Blundell and Sodhi given a run. We might need them if we are going to have a winning chance



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Henrys pie chucking doesnt prove my point. It just illustrates it. Southee has bowled overs like that before, Boult has as well. A bad performance doesnt mean you are bad.
    However......if you are batting 9/10/11 and being picked as a bowler.. your captain needs to be able to throw you the ball at ANY stage of an innings and know you have a good chance of advancing the teams cause. Not 100%, but maybe 40% of really improving it, 55% chance of just maintaining the status quo and 5% of hurting your team.
    Henry fails at that miserably, after the first 15 overs he has a much higher chance of hurting your team than helping them.
    If you were captain of the Black Caps and it was a close game... how confident do you feel calling up Henry to bowl after the 15 over mark? He has no variations and is mentally fragile. He is a fair weather bowler and when the going gets tough, he seems to lose it more often than not.

    I know some facile supporters just screech STATS!!!.. but that analysis is cringey.

    Despite our differences on the subject I don’t actually disagree with any of this as such it’s just I think we need to realise we’re a team with weaknesses like any other and an ageing out of form Southee isn’t the answer to back up Boult. His stats ( sorry but I have to mention it ) have been awful since the 2015 WC.

    Henry’s death bowling was terrible. I’m certainly not gonna deny that in the slightest.



  • Henry gets dropped for that farking catching chance off Gayle!!

    Easy peezy



  • Wow what an insane game, WI have so many dangerous players so really good to get the win against them.

    Hard not to feel for Braithwaite. Just needed another yard on that final shot and he's a hero. Awesome innings and deserved to get his side over the line.

    Big positive for us is the way Kane and Rosco took control after the early wickets. We have our two all time best both in good form heading into the back end of the tournament.

    Boult in the wickets was also exactly what we needed. Henry getting smacked at the death once again not so much.

    Pakistan, Australia and then England to go. Bring it on!



  • @Cyclops said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @hydro11 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @akan004 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Will these bowlers ever learn the value of yorkers?

    That was Henry's problem. He doesn't have the variations to be effective at the death. Neesham is a better bowler at this stage as we are seeing. Henry was trying to execute but they just turned out as full tosses.

    Yeah Neesham and Ferguson both bowled a lot of cutters and slower bouncers at the death. Henry's approach to bowling at the death seems completely different and hasn't really changed. What are the coaches doing?

    Kane bowled out Boult and Ferguson early in the search for wickets.



  • @shark said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @Cyclops said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @hydro11 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @akan004 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Will these bowlers ever learn the value of yorkers?

    That was Henry's problem. He doesn't have the variations to be effective at the death. Neesham is a better bowler at this stage as we are seeing. Henry was trying to execute but they just turned out as full tosses.

    Yeah Neesham and Ferguson both bowled a lot of cutters and slower bouncers at the death. Henry's approach to bowling at the death seems completely different and hasn't really changed. What are the coaches doing?

    Kane bowled out Boult and Ferguson early in the search for wickets.

    Boult and Ferguson bowled 44 through 47. Henry had 48 and Neesham 49. The difference in planning between Henry is 48 and Ferguson in 47 and Neesham in 49 stood out to me. Henry was consistently going far wide yorkers and missing, Neesham and Ferguson weren't.



  • Jesus! Did the graveyard shift with nzzp and squirrel and ACT and we all safely escorted the country past the Gayle drop and the Windies early innings rise.

    Clocked off with the game safely in the bag with 8 down only to wake up in a fuzz and wonder why the score graphics were so wrong

    7 runs off 6 balls - Nonsense, we had them stuffed at 8 for 211

    What a great see saw of a game. Phew

    Starting to realise that the reason this tourney is a bit boring is because I'm not even watching the bloody thing!!

    Good 2 points there



  • I really, really, really wish Kane would bowl a couple of overs himself. Shit, he's not going to be much worse than Henry or Neesham in terms of runs, no matter what stage of the innings he's bowling in. Sneaking in a couple of extra overs just gives us so much more flexibility with our bowling plans.

    I get that we shot our load searching for wickets, but we won't get this lucky again when the other team really should have won. I see Henry v Southee as a balance on where we want to give something away. Henry is definitely the bigger threat early on, Southee still could hit a golden run, but the stats are showing that's one area he's dropped away in. But Southee is a much better option throughout the innings, especially at the death. Variation, experience and consistency are all in Southee's favour at that point.

    I'd be inclined to try Southee in the next match. Would also bring in Nicolls and Blundell.



  • @shark said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @Cyclops said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @hydro11 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @akan004 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Will these bowlers ever learn the value of yorkers?

    That was Henry's problem. He doesn't have the variations to be effective at the death. Neesham is a better bowler at this stage as we are seeing. Henry was trying to execute but they just turned out as full tosses.

    Yeah Neesham and Ferguson both bowled a lot of cutters and slower bouncers at the death. Henry's approach to bowling at the death seems completely different and hasn't really changed. What are the coaches doing?

    Kane bowled out Boult and Ferguson early in the search for wickets.

    Personally I hope he doesn't do that again. Or if he does he needs a better death bowling option than Henry. Neesh was cold blooded. Has CDG ever bowled at the death? I know he isn't particularly fast but he bowls quite a heavy ball and has a knack of getting dismissals. It's all probably too late to formulate a brand new plan anyway



  • Looking back, the BC’s are now unbeaten through 12 Group stage CWC games and o/a have only lost 4 of their last 23 games.
    Shame 1 of those was the big one..



  • @Virgil said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    Looking back, the BC’s are now unbeaten through 12 Group stage CWC games and o/a have only lost 4 of their last 23 games.
    Shame 1 of those was the big one..

    We're a starters chance if we make the semis. I think we'll struggle to contain high class batsmen (Smith, Warner), but if we can post a few decent scores and field like demons, anything can happen. PRessures does funny things, and I think the neutrals in the crowd will generally support us over India or Aus



  • Kane’s last 2 amazing innings have shot his ODI average up to 48.18, Roscoes is 48.38
    How many sides have had a 3-4 batting lineup with those kind of numbers?



  • @Siam said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @hydro11 Hesson said Nicholls hide injury niggles at the first game, so not fully fit, side I think. Then Guppy and Munro performed. Crickets not good at changing winning combinations

    True Hesson is loyal. I just don't see why he wasn't loyal to Nicholls who performed well over the summer. Hesson has generally put a player coming back from injury straight back in, even if their replacement does well. I suppose Nicholls didn't have that many runs on the board.



  • @hydro11 less ODI runs than Munro. The number of lives he's had, he must do an amazing job of mowing the coach's lawn



  • @hydro11 said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @Siam said in CWC Game #6 Black Caps v West Indies:

    @hydro11 Hesson said Nicholls hide injury niggles at the first game, so not fully fit, side I think. Then Guppy and Munro performed. Crickets not good at changing winning combinations

    True Hesson is loyal. I just don't see why he wasn't loyal to Nicholls who performed well over the summer. Hesson has generally put a player coming back from injury straight back in, even if their replacement does well. I suppose Nicholls didn't have that many runs on the board.

    I never said anything about Hesson's loyalty. His coaching is irrelevant.
    It's just that he's the only source of a reason as to why Munro played against Sri Lanka, that I know of


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