P and all that jazz



  • So I've recently found that a fairly disturbing number of my old acquaintances have been hitting the P pipe and that access to it in small NZ towns is pretty rife. There seems to be an almost accepted social use going on with some of these guys but also some quickly moving through to the 'move out to the wops, give up on life' group.
     
    Now I'm no Charlie church, I partied pretty hard during my London time and tried a number of things. I always had a rule through not to take anything from someone I didn't trust, use needles or smoke anything that wasn't weed. There were a couple times where friends and I realised we were going a bit hard and put ourselves through some self imposed detox weeks but overall I had a pretty awesome time of it and I found at least for the majority of people I knew these recreational drugs were no where near the monster that I was  brought up to believe in. Having said that though I'm glad I'm done with them and have certainly met people that have had a totally different experience.
     
    Now this P stuff though I don't know a lot about, but if what the media, family working in social services and  my non-dropkick mates tell me is true then that's pretty frightening stuff. The availability of it particularly worries me, I'd hate to think what would have happened to me and my friends as stupid ass teenagers if weed wasn't the 'coolest' thing we could get our hands on.
     
    Has anyone had any experiences with this stuff, is it a potential community destroyer? Is law enforcement in a losing battle here trying to control it?



  • P came in near the end of my partying days where speed and to a lesser extent E (or so I heard) were pretty much replaced with P. Made sense money wise for the gangs with the prices. If you like an 'alternate' experience P isn't really for you imo, I tried it once at a party and to be honest didn't really notice anything other than being a bit more alert/less boozed. Loosely similar to speed it keeps you awake and most people can sink a fair bit of piss on it. So P/speed often fell in the 'booster' category to let you party harder and for longer. Or so I've been told...
     
    None of my circle of friends got into it but a few mates of mates did. I know of one train-wreck but I reckon P just made things happen faster for that poor bastard.
     
    Did a project a few years back looking at experiences of kids in Alternative Education. The stories of their home lives and yarns with the clinical psychologist who was on the team were real eye openers. P is really evil for people without good self-regulation. Re drugs if you know that any come down is transitory, or that being down/grumpy on Mon/Tues is a direct result of your Fri/Sat bender then you are better equipped to deal with it.
     
    For those without that self regulation the comedown can feel like it lasts forever, and they will do nearly anything to crash themselves out. With P the answer is typically spirits, nothing else makes a dent in it. So you'll have people high as kites, who haven't slept for 24+ hours trying to end the buzz - kind of explains some of the random robberies of dairys etc for a few bottles of booze. Unfortunately a number of those situations have been really sad with deaths or serious assaults.
     
    Also goes back to P being bloody expensive as these sorts of things go - so that feeds into burgs, stealing etc to get money to get your fix. That is a slippery slope and who knows what goes on when you owe gangs money... gulp.
     
    Not sure how widely spread it is, but the stats of how many rental homes/state houses have been used as labs is scary. That is some nasty shit and you wouldn't want to be living in a house where it's been made without a heap of $$ clean up work.



  • Good summary above by Paekak... 
     
    Like yourself mate, I've partaken a couple of times.. and can report the same effects as you did. It's definitely not as fun as most any of the other "party drugs"
     
    Of course the media are going to exaggerate the problem. You'd think that anyone who even tries it is condemned to a life of addiction, theft and prison time. 
     
    The reality is that this is not the case. I personally know of respected Lawyers, Doctors, Accountants and many other blokes who hold down a successful career and family life and also partake in this type of activity. None of them are addicts, but I definately know of some who like to let themselves go a bit from time to time.
     
    Much like any other drug, the only guys going down this path are those that are predetermined to be like this in a way. (just like PK says above, it's the ones who can't self regulate who are the problem).



  • Never done it. Most adventurous I've ever been was some really good quality weed, and then at a mate's 40th I was offered some blow - which would have been pretty clean stuff as well - but declined on account of the wife's strict no-tolerance for that. Damn shame as I really wanted to tick that off the list, and keep partying (was 2AM at that point).
     
    Anyway, the media here reports it as "crisis levels" in a lot of rural areas, and it seems to hit those smaller towns (under 5000) hardest because it takes a big percentage of useful society out of play.



  • I've smoked a fair bit of weed in my past. Also done E, acid and those legal highs. Of those it was the legal highs that fucked me up the most - similar effect as P where you get a shit load of energy and party hard all night, and can sink a lot more piss. Then the next day is hell as you are tired as fuck but can't sleep. E and acid made for some great nights and I felt fine the next day, though it's not something I'd want to do on a regular basis. Weed is mild as fuck and doesn't really do anything except relax you a bit, and give you the munchies a few hours later.
    I've known people that smoked P on a regular basis. They were dropkicks but they did hold down jobs etc so it wasn't quite what the media portrays. As mentioned earlier the effects of recreational drugs is dependant on the person doing them. There are people that seemingly give up on life and turning to drugs is an obvious thing to do to escape reality. Then there are others that work hard but like to indulge to blow off a bit of steam.



  • I've smoked a fair bit of weed in my past. Also done E, acid and those legal highs. Of those it was the legal highs that fucked me up the most - similar effect as P where you get a shit load of energy and party hard all night, and can sink a lot more piss. Then the next day is hell as you are tired as fuck but can't sleep. E and acid made for some great nights and I felt fine the next day, though it's not something I'd want to do on a regular basis. Weed is mild as fuck and doesn't really do anything except relax you a bit, and give you the munchies a few hours later.
    I've known people that smoked P on a regular basis. They were dropkicks but they did hold down jobs etc so it wasn't quite what the media portrays. As mentioned earlier the effects of recreational drugs is dependant on the person doing them. There are people that seemingly give up on life and turning to drugs is an obvious thing to do to escape reality. Then there are others that work hard but like to indulge to blow off a bit of steam.

    I've seen weed fuck up family members so don't believe it is mild as fuck - although as Sammy notes drugs can affect different people differently and it appears it's all good with you.
     
    Like Sammy I know a fair few professionals that are big drug consumers, P included - I wonder if having the money to have it regularly lessens the chance of downward spiral addiction?



  • I've seen weed fuck up family members so don't believe it is mild as fuck - although as Sammy notes drugs can affect different people differently and it appears it's all good with you.

    There is some nasty shit out there - down to brain chemistry of course on an individual basis, but also the theory that some hydroponic growers jam all sorts of shit into their batches to fertilise and grow quicker. Apparently makes it different to the "home-grown" gear that was available from old mate down the road when I was a lad. 
     
    Comes back to what Rembrandt said above: don't do anything from someone you don't trust.



  • I've seen weed fuck up family members so don't believe it is mild as fuck - although as Sammy notes drugs can affect different people differently and it appears it's all good with you.
    Like Sammy I know a fair few professionals that are big drug consumers, P included - I wonder if having the money to have it regularly lessens the chance of downward spiral addiction?
    Fair enough. Was speaking from personal experience. I've seen alcohol fuck a lot more people up then weed so of all the drugs available it is at the mild end of the scale. But a lot of it comes down the the individual. Drugs are a very bad thing for some people, but fine for others.



  • I've never touched anything, weed included, just never been that bothered by it TBH; you hear the odd story about P-houses, I know when I was working at the council for a year 2 houses were 'discovered' as being P-Houses and as such needed to have this on the file for future LIM reports (although owners had spent thousands cleaning it) and there have been burglaries/robberies where the criminal was supposedly on P, 1 fatality a few years back.



  • Had a mate we'll call Bob that moved up north and bought a roofing business up there, he moved back about 12 years later and I ran into him at a school fair. He was obviously on something by the way he carrying on, my mate hired Bob about a month later because he was broke and his business had folded and he was actually a good tradesman. I did tell my mate what I thought was going on and a couple of his stories that he'd been saying about his marriage bust up and business failure didn't quite add up.
    Anyway a year later Bobs working on my job , turns up at 10 leaves the young guy he was working with on the job , disappears at 1130 comes back at 2 gone by 3. Rang my mate to ask whats going on because I needed the roof on and he had no idea this was how he'd been working. Never showed up for work the next day, mate gets a call that night from another roofing company asking if he knows Bob because he started working for him that morning and asked to be paid at the end of the day.
    That was about wednesday, friday night the young guy Bob was working with gets arrested for drunk and disorderly.
    He thinks Bobs the man because Bobs storing his car for him and helping him do it up so he rings Bob and asks if he can give him a ride home from the station Bob says no he's had too much to drink.Young guy gets home from the station to find his stereo, x box and big screen tv gone, goes to the four square down the road and asks to look at their security camera and there Bobs car on the way to his house ten minutes after he rang to ask for a lift.Him and his mates went around to Bobs house to confront him but he said the stuff was gone and he couldn't get it back and basically intimated to them they could give him a hiding if they wanted. They thought he was so pathetic they didn't bother but they got the car out of the garage and lots of it was missing , sold to buy p or pay his bills. Bob left town that night and hasn't been back since, that was 2012.
     
    I used to really like Bob he was good company , other guys used to take the piss out of him because instead of finishing one job and taking the rest of the day off like they did he'd get the next one ready to go and he worked some pretty long hours too. He was a really fit guy and a martial arts instructor, the Bob that skipped town was a wreck. Thats really my only experience of anyone who uses p, I know lots of people who've smoked pot for years and turned into useless twats but not like Bob .
     
    I agree with Nepia too, weed isn't as benign  as its supporters would have you believe.



  • I have seen some real fucked up stuff as a result of p or ice. There is something nasty about that drug that drains the essence of who that person once was. I have seen vibrant men and women wither away to shadows of their former selves. I have seen families torn apart, mums and dads at a loss as to how to help their child. You might be one of the lucky ones that can handle that shit, or at least think you are. If p or any of the variants get hold of you, it is a very very long way back. And it can be a very quick decent into a very deep and dark hole.



  • For all that I, and most of my mates, have had no dramas with weed I'd never say it's totally benign. As a few posters have noted for some people drugs just mess them up utterly. That can be booze, weed, prescription drugs or the harder stuff. Some people make one shitty decision and that's all she wrote - but that's a lot rarer for stuff like weed and even ecstasy. I'd struggle to include booze in that group as I've seen that wreck folks - but obviously booze is legal and more accessible etc so that will skew things.



  • Yeah, look, I wouldn't say I'm a "weed supporter", I just found that from a mind altering POV it was a lot milder then anything else on the market. I don't doubt it has messed with people's lives, but compared to what is out there it's at the lower end of the scale.
    I haven't smoked it in years. That wasn't a concious decision. More that I became too busy with work and family to have time lazing around getting stoned. There was no "going cold turkey" period like there is with a lot of other drugs, but I accept that some people do become very dependant on it to the detriment of other parts of their lives.



  • Three things antipodean wouldn't and hasn't touched thus far; meth, crack cocaine and heroin. Seen the by-products of introducing that misery into your life and I feel that's the best drug education for young people; http://fav-meth-head-of-the-day.com/faces-of-meth/



  • Someone remind me to post in this thread tomorrow.
    Briefly, anyone that thinks weed is ok needs to spend time in a mental institute to see the real effects. P is an amazing drug. Amazing that something can be completely destructive to a human and be willingly consumed. Awful awful drug. Makes cocaine seem like nuerofen



  • NZ is pretty much the top country for Meth apparently. Down to the fact that importing crack & heroin is REALLY hard & expensive so meth is ideal is its effectivly lo rent & you can make it in the country. So it effectivly replaces crack & heroin in the country's drug options.
     
    Like most on here I've tried a few drugs & I know a lot of people that have worked their way through several. The only drugs I've seen I would regard as 100% certain to fuck your life up are Heroin, Crack & Meth.
     
    Tho' a few heavy weed users I knew back in NZ are effectivly unable to function without it & pretty much impaired 24/7. Weed is a tricky one it that people tell themselves "it just takes the edge off" but what its taking the edge off is life. So you get folks who are mildly stoned all the time, at work, with their kids etc and telling themselves they are fine. Its like people who are incapable of going out without coke. Tho at least there it only affects their socialising.



  • I have seen some real fucked up stuff as a result of p or ice. There is something nasty about that drug that drains the essence of who that person once was. I have seen vibrant men and women wither away to shadows of their former selves. I have seen families torn apart, mums and dads at a loss as to how to help their child. You might be one of the lucky ones that can handle that shit, or at least think you are. If p or any of the variants get hold of you, it is a very very long way back. And it can be a very quick decent into a very deep and dark hole.

    CH were you the one in law enforcement? If so do you think current strategies are working? Like some others here H,Meth and Crack scare me far more than anything else out there, could there be an arguement to reduce enforcement of comparitively more minor drugs such as weed and instead focus this on the real nasties?
    I'm curious as to what the mid to long term effect of the legalisation in colarado is, maybe its a bit of a simplistic view but I'd like to see something like that but with a guaranteed percentage of the tax revenue going directly to actual drug education (not just transparent scare tactics) as well as massively bringing the smackdown on meth dealers and for users if they don't give up their dealers. People are always gping to find stuff to get messed up on it just might be better for society to funnel them to certain substances over others.



  • NZ is pretty much the top country for Meth apparently. Down to the fact that importing crack & heroin is REALLY hard & expensive so meth is ideal is its effectivly lo rent & you can make it in the country. So it effectivly replaces crack & heroin in the country's drug options.

    P is a favorite because you can buy P Precursor legally in China and its cheap. Buy large quantities, divide into small packets, and then pack them into containers and airfreight parcels. Shotgun approach, fire enough at NZ, our Customs find plenty but plenty more gets through.



  • CH were you the one in law enforcement? If so do you think current strategies are working? Like some others here H,Meth and Crack scare me far more than anything else out there, could there be an arguement to reduce enforcement of comparitively more minor drugs such as weed and instead focus this on the real nasties?
    I'm curious as to what the mid to long term effect of the legalisation in colarado is, maybe its a bit of a simplistic view but I'd like to see something like that but with a guaranteed percentage of the tax revenue going directly to actual drug education (not just transparent scare tactics) as well as massively bringing the smackdown on meth dealers and for users if they don't give up their dealers. People are always gping to find stuff to get messed up on it just might be better for society to funnel them to certain substances over others.

    I think you will find that enforcement on weed in places like Colorado has become even higher. It is just the rules that have changed.
    It's a good concept though (for some substances like alcohol, tobacco, weed) where the social cost is outweighed by the social gains.
    It's not like everyone wanders around stoned or partakes in public. The rules are strictly enforced and are similar to alcohol (eg public signs of intoxication, consuming in public, licenced sales etc)
    As you say, people will always look for substances and finding where to draw the line is the issue for society.



  • Briefly, anyone that thinks weed is ok needs to spend time in a mental institute to see the real effects. P is an amazing drug. Amazing that something can be completely destructive to a human and be willingly consumed. Awful awful drug. Makes cocaine seem like nuerofen

    Bit of a generalisation here, Apparently 14% of the NZ poulation are catagorised as weed smokers. It's only a very small percentage that end up in mental institutions.
     
    I'm guessing you are a bit older than me, but it's pretty normalised in society now. As mentioned above I know of plenty who use and also hold down demanding careers, young families without becoming the zombies some have suggested above.



  • I'll add a couple of things.
     
    It's nothing to do with 'zombiness' it is about depression from prolonged use.
     
    Not one of the people in the clinic were young, they were all 40+ who had smoked weed for years. It's accumulative.
     
    I'm not trying to convince anyone about anything. I am just pointing out what I saw and what I got to hear from the therapists and psycologists. I got to spend a good couple of months there as a visitor as I was helping someone through a difficult patch. They allowed me to stay on premise in visitor quarters. Seeing these people each day was heartbreaking.
     
    I would struggle to go through that again for someone.



  • Are you saying that prolonged use causes depression? Or that it may cause depression? Or that people that are prone to depression turn to weed? Were they casual smokers or were they 24/7 stoners? Did these people drink or do any other drugs as well, or were they only smoking weed?
     
    There are far too many variables to just make a sweeping statement like "you need to spend time in a mental institute to see the real effects of weed".
     
    In my opinion.
     
    🙂



  • True. Probably best to just ignore it.
     
    Toot toot



  • I go with Hooroo's view. A few years ago I worked regularly with a guy who works helping people who'd had mental health issues transition back to regular (or supported) employment. He mentioned he'd had a very liberal view about pot when he was younger, but he'd found the amount of drug induced psychosis that he'd seen in his line of work a frightening eye opener.
    "But I did it and I'm fine". Lucky you. Plenty of farmers who drink raw milk say the same thing, and good luck to them, plenty of people who avoid their flu jab stay healthy too. But individual results do vary....



  • Fair enough. Agree individual results do vary. I don't think the argument is "but I did it and I'm fine", it's more "the majority of people that have done it are fine".



  • Fair enough. Agree individual results do vary. I don't think the argument is "but I did it and I'm fine", it's more "the majority of people that have done it are fine".

    Exactly, and statistics back up this point of view.
     
    So many stories on this thread start like "I know this guy who used to smoke...."
     
    For every one of these stories I reckon there are many more to be told of those who don't end up a complete fuckup as a result.



  • Exactly, and statistics back up this point of view.
     
    So many stories on this thread start like "I know this guy who used to smoke...."
     
    For every one of these stories I reckon there are many more to be told of those who don't end up a complete fuckup as a result.

    I've yet to meet one.
     
    As I said, I have no bother in trying to convince anyone about this. It is pointless.



  • Well even if you haven't met one the statistics back up my point.
     
    14% of the population are smokers... 14% of the poulation do not end up with severe depression or psychiatric issue.
     
    I would guess that figure is much less than 1%.



  • And how many of those folks were solely using weed rather than weed plus x, Y, Z. 
     
    I don't think it's as cut and dried (oh a pun of sorts!) as use it for over X years and end up with X symptoms/issues. But at the same time people have, and will continue too, end up in bad places due to use of weed. 
     
    I'm with Sammy in that the numbers with weed-related mental health issues are pretty low in proportion to overall users. Not that it isn't shit for anyone dealing with that sort of stuff or the impact it has on their whanau and friends. 
     
    Good on you Hooroo, that can't have been an easy thing to do. Respect.



  • Whilst the overall numbers may not be that startling it would be interesting to know if there was a divergence, percentage wise, between non stoners and (prolonged) stoners in regard to mental health issues. Then there is the extra risk - as what you are taking is illegal it is not regulated and you are at the mercy of the integrity of someone who is already operating outside the law. Your chances of dealing with a scrote go up exponentially with the accordant dangers. Lastly - this certainly goes for the UK, i can't say in regard to NZ or Aussie - the strength and toxicity of the weed now freely available is so much more than in my salad days. Most of that skunk shit is, well shit really. The frequency of psychotic episodes is greatly increasing according to anecdotal evidence from a few local hospitals.



  • Well even if you haven't met one the statistics back up my point.
     
    14% of the population are smokers... 14% of the poulation do not end up with severe depression or psychiatric issue.
     
    I would guess that figure is much less than 1%.

    Stats are funny things. Last time I checked the non-vaccination rate was also between 10 and 15%.
    Which certainly doesn't mean they all get polio, but I couldn't recommend non-vaccination either.



  • Stats are funny things. Last time I checked the non-vaccination rate was also between 10 and 15%.
    Which certainly doesn't mean they all get polio, but I couldn't recommend non-vaccination either.
    True, but herd immunity is an extra positive of vaccination that doesn't apply to weed use.
    The strongest drug I take is caffeine, but I think weed should be legalised - the negatives to society of the illegality outweigh the negatives of the drug itself.



  • I agree, I don't think I would have too much of a problem if it was decriminalised.



  • Somewhat topical:

    A warning has been issued over a potentially deadly batch of synthetic cannabis after a teenage boy died in the NSW Hunter region and two others were hospitalised.
     
    Dean Shield, 17, was discovered in a reserve at Rutherford on Saturday night and police have been told he took 'Kronic' in the hours before his body was found.
     
    Superintendent Craig Jackson told reporters on Monday that police were worried there was more of the same batch available, and warned users of the substance they were taking their lives into their own hands.
     
    In January last year two Queensland men died after after smoking the batch of synthetic cannabis.
     
    Australia's prohibition approach to cannabis is leading to deaths and harm to people turning to the much more dangerous synthetic version, warns an expert.
     
    'Most doctors that I know hanker after the days in which we might have to treat somebody who is just smoking weed,' Dr David Caldicott told AAP.
     
    The emergency consultant and senior clinical lecturer at the ANU's college of medicine was speaking after the death of the 17-year-old boy and hospitalisation of two men in NSW.
     
    Police were told the trio had consumed a synthetic form of cannabis known as 'Kronic'.
     
    'I think this is a tragic example of deja vue,' Dr Caldicott said.
     
    'We need to ask ourselves what is wrong with our current approach that allows these tragedies to continue to occur.
     
    'I don't know a practising emergency physician who would not have treated (such a case) in the last year.'
     
    While synthetic cannabis is marketed as a herbal or natural alternative to cannabis, 'it's anything but', being prepared in industrial labs, frequently in southwest China.
     
    'There are absolutely hundreds of these products on the market and every time one is banned another five or 10 emerge' using different chemicals.
     
    This presents a challenge to the medical profession in knowing what they are dealing with.
     
    'This is a problem of our own creation,' he said.
     
    'The prohibition approach towards cannabis, which can be identified by sniffer dogs and identified in your urine, has resulted in the emergence of a market of far more dangerous compounds.'
     
    They can't be identified by dogs or in your urine, can be bought over the internet and delivered through the post as they are not detected by normal techniques, he said.
     
    'Kronic' was a brand marketed several years ago, but Dr Caldicott said he doubted whether the recent cases involved the same product.
     
    'As part of our monitoring program we have clearly seen the same brands with very different chemicals inside, so the packaging and the street name is largely irrelevant as to what you are receiving.'



  • Interesting reading about everyone's views on puffing the old magic dragon. It's something I haven't done since the late 90s, I just didn't particularly like it and how it made me feel, I was always much more of a drinker and I've never tried anything else save for an extremely brief period of smoking to look cool to chicks which amazingly enough worked for a bit......
     
    It is absolutely ridiculous that it is illegal though, booze causes sooooooooo much more fucken damage to lives, property etc that it isn't funny. Weed isn't me and that's fine and I certainly don't judge those who choose to partake, I guess I'm just lucky that my vice of choice is legal.
     
    P? I had an extremely interesting yarn to one of our finest Senior Constables and he says the effects of that horrible drug are equal parts terrifying and heart breaking. The shit he told me over a few beers would make Breaking Bad look like Full House.....



  • True, but herd immunity is an extra positive of vaccination that doesn't apply to weed use.
    The strongest drug I take is caffeine, but I think weed should be legalised - the negatives to society of the illegality outweigh the negatives of the drug itself.

    Point being just because something is "normalised" at 14% tells you absolutely nothing about whether it's good or bad. Just that people do something. There are a number of good arguments for changes to the current legislation on drugs, but something "being normalised" is rarely one of them.
    And the advantage of herd immunity with vaccines is to protect people at high risk/low immunity/unable to be vaccinated for genuine health reasons. Not to give contemptible fucksticks a false sense of security.



  • Fair enough. Agree individual results do vary. I don't think the argument is "but I did it and I'm fine", it's more "the majority of people that have done it are fine".
    The majority of people can have a Mars bar and not turn diabetic instantly either, though curiously the actively pro marijuana people on my Facebook news feed want to ban me from having a Coca Cola at the same time...
    Good reasons for decriminalisation to me seem to be:

    • Responsible informed adults can make their own life choices
    • Some power will be taken away from criminal gangs
    • Some form of tax revenue is generated for the health consequences for those whom it does affect negatively
    • It will be available as a form of pain relief for those it suits
      And a fringe benefit being that the 'it's a hidden cure for cancer/every disease under the sun' brigade will have to face reality for a brief moment when it does nothing of the sort.
      'Alcohol/cigarettes/sugar/fat are just as bad' falls into the "we're crap but you're worse" category of sporting chant... Satisfying at the time, but otherwise shithouse...
      (And no, I wouldn't ban any of those four - before someone starts)


  • CH were you the one in law enforcement? If so do you think current strategies are working? Like some others here H,Meth and Crack scare me far more than anything else out there, could there be an arguement to reduce enforcement of comparitively more minor drugs such as weed and instead focus this on the real nasties?

    I am not privy to any statistics so I am only going by what I see on the streets and in people's homes, but I think we are losing the battle with p. Things just seem worse in the last few years.
    As for marijuana we don't get much trouble from people when they are under the influence but things can be different when regular users are not on it - they can get very angry over the smallest things.



  • When a house has been a P lab it is basically a write off. Even if the owners do a really, really super thorough clean, market value plummets. That shit gets in everywhere, walls, ceiling. And people on P/trying to get a fix can do horrific things.
     
    I've never touched drugs, tried the odd cigarette in high school, hated the taste.
     
    Wouldn't care either way if weed was decriminalised, I think doctors have more to worry about with those fucking 'legal high' packets of Russian roulette.



  • The weed = depression thing is hard because people will tend towards weed if they find life a bit much. Its a GREAT drug if you are a bit overwhelmed & stressed & need to take the edge off. IE if you are already depressed & have mental health issues then weed is the drug you may well turn to. Then you become dependendent on weed & then you end up in mental health care. 
     
    The hard bit is sorting the people who became psychotic because of heavy weed use from the people who were psychotic & for years self medicated with weed.


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