Bastille day truck crash
-
<p>Not testy at all Baron. More amused I'd say.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>People on this board have been very anti-muslim in their attitudes and I don't see it as a stupid claim that some on here are anti-everything Muslim. If you have the patience please go back through this thread and countless others to see the evidence. You can pick out the odd thing that some Muslims are doing (as you have above) and try and claim that you're not anti-Muslim but you're not really fooling anyone.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I didn't actually call people on both sides rabid, I said "the current levels of rabid islamic attacks and the rabid backlash".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Again, you're trying to pick an argument that isn't there. I'd suggest you try a new hobby. Something outdoorsy.</p> -
<p>So you're saying you cannot be anti-Islam without being anti-Muslim?</p>
-
<p>I think Muslim's in the west that have reformed their faith are our source of hope that the religion can get better. Those that are coming out and publicly condemning the attacks and saying that the religion needs reform are hugely important. Unfortunately not very many are - not because they don't believe it to be true - but because coming out publicly is fraught with danger. Many people that have publicly said that it needs reform speak of daily death threats ever since.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think an important question is who speaks for Islam? Unlike Catholicism that has a central figure in the Pope, Islam has many different "leaders" who preach a lot of different things. Some focus on the violent parts of the Koran (E.G. ISIS), some try and incorporate all parts (E.G Middle Eastern countries), and others (generally in the west) focus on the parts that promote tolerance and peace, which I guess is the most humane way of reconciling your faith.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There is some huge problems with Islam as it stands today. We have to be frank and honest about the facts (that it is <u>not</u> a "religion of peace" etc) or how are things going to improve? Saying "it's nothing to do with Islam" after every single attack is not helpful.</p> -
<p>Nope. There is an obvious distinction between attacking an ideology or a religion and attacking the adherents to the same. I think we all pretty much recognise that.</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="603780" data-time="1470559608">
<div>
<p>Not testy at all Baron. More amused I'd say.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>People on this board have been very anti-muslim in their attitudes and I don't see it as a stupid claim that some on here are anti-everything Muslim. If you have the patience please go back through this thread and countless others to see the evidence. You can pick out the odd thing that some Muslims are doing (as you have above) and try and claim that you're not anti-Muslim but you're not really fooling anyone.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I didn't actually call people on both sides rabid, I said "the current levels of rabid islamic attacks and the rabid backlash".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Again, you're trying to pick an argument that isn't there. I'd suggest you try a new hobby. Something outdoorsy.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Who has been anti Muslim?? You keep saying that. I have seen people be anti Islam, but as you say, that is not the same as anti Muslim.</p>
<p>I am not anti Muslim, I ham happy to debate, but if you are just going to make stuff up and assign positions to people that have never been taken you can expect to get called on it. </p> -
If I say the Mormon religion is a stupid fucking religion founded by a mad conartist and based on lies and bullshit does that mean I hate all Mormons? If I'm openly hostile to the well-groomed bike riders who knock on the door, does that make me a bigot or just someone that doesn't want to hear some insane story about a con artist and his magic hat?<br><br>
I'd assume the answer is no for both of the above, so why is the concept of being anti-Islam but not hating every Muslim something that is so hard for some people here to grasp? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="603802" data-time="1470562926">
<div>
<p>Who has been anti Muslim?? You keep saying that. I have seen people be anti Islam, but as you say, that is not the same as anti Muslim.</p>
<p>I am not anti Muslim, I ham happy to debate, but if you are just going to make stuff up and assign positions to people that have never been taken you can expect to get called on it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is if nothing if not predictable, you like many others claim to know that you can criticise an ideology but not be anti all the followers of the ideology.. but when it comes down to it.. you cannot actually help but assume that those that criticise the ideology dislike all the adherents.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Well there's this that suggest you just might be anti-muslim:-</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Quote BSG, Orlando thread "<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Oh yeah.. poor Muslims.. my heart bleeds. </span><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Must be horrible to have all those nasty words said about your religion. Much better to ahve bullets and bombs thrown at you."</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">or this from the same thread:- "</span><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">I do my bit to to tangibly support free speech dont worry about that. I have little chance of getting <strong>Muslims</strong> to change"</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">And from the same thread you suggested that "all that follow the ideology and do not openly criticise the hateful elements of it" are worthy of your ire. Thus condemning all Muslims that do not or cannot criticise their religion.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>​Then there was your comment about making all immigrants eat bacon to prove they're not Muslim.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All of the above are indicative of an anti-muslim outlook. In this and other threads you have been very open about distancing the religion from the people but have also made many comments that suggest otherwise. You may feel you aren't anti-muslim and you can point out many things you've said that supports this but bear in mind if you spend most of your life not sucking dick but only do it now and again, then you're still seen as a cocksucker.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I've probably (hopefully) said all I want to on this subject, in this manner. It's much easier to argue the toss face to face where we would end up either buying each other beer or punching each other in the face - maybe even both. You have your view on the subject and I have mine. Neither position seems likely to change.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="603798" data-time="1470562171">
<div>
<p>I think Muslim's in the west that have reformed their faith are our source of hope that the religion can get better. Those that are coming out and publicly condemning the attacks and saying that the religion needs reform are hugely important. <strong>Unfortunately not very many are - not because they don't believe it to be true - but because coming out publicly is fraught with danger. </strong>Many people that have publicly said that it needs reform speak of daily death threats ever since.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think an important question is who speaks for Islam? Unlike Catholicism that has a central figure in the Pope, Islam has many different "leaders" who preach a lot of different things. Some focus on the violent parts of the Koran (E.G. ISIS), some try and incorporate all parts (E.G Middle Eastern countries), and others (generally in the west) focus on the parts that promote tolerance and peace, which I guess is the most humane way of reconciling your faith.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There is some huge problems with Islam as it stands today. We have to be frank and honest about the facts (that it is <u>not</u> a "religion of peace" etc) or how are things going to improve? Saying "it's nothing to do with Islam" after every single attack is not helpful.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>i don't really believe this to be true. every western muslim i have spoken to or seen asked for comment has condemned the attacks. they also repeatedly say 'this is not islam, these are not muslims'. that's because to them, it is not islam. to them, their islamic ideology is not violent and doesn't need reform - they don't see the terrorists as members of their religion, they see them as terrorists. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>saying 'it is islam' after the attacks would be dangerous. it would breed hatred and bigotry, and harassment and potentially violence against people who have done nothing wrong. i would argue that not doing that is helpful.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="603836" data-time="1470571944"><p>i don't really believe this to be true. every western muslim i have spoken to or seen asked for comment has condemned the attacks. they also repeatedly say 'this is not islam, these are not muslims'. that's because to them, it is not islam. to them, their islamic ideology is not violent and doesn't need reform - they don't see the terrorists as members of their religion, they see them as terrorists. <br><br>
saying 'it is islam' after the attacks would be dangerous. it would breed hatred and bigotry, and harassment and potentially violence against people who have done nothing wrong. i would argue that not doing that is helpful.</p></blockquote>
Then those Muslims are wilfully ignoring the problem and are only fanning the "anti-Muslim" fire that is starting to burn. It may not be their version of Islam, but it is a version that many leaders in their community adhere too.<br><br>
Reform has to come from within the Islamic community. Me screaming it at the top of my lungs won't achieve much, and in fact as you say may make things worse if the majority of Muslims are saying "nothing to do with us".<br><br>
As I said, Muslims in the west that have reformed their faith are hugely important, and we need them speaking up and condemming this shit. We need them to speak the loudest for Islam. Sticking their heads in the sand and saying "nothing to do with Islam" only makes things worse. The article linked above is exactly what they need to do - have a physical presence in showing solidarity to the victims. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="603931" data-time="1470610067">
<div>
<p>Then those Muslims are wilfully ignoring the problem and are only fanning the "anti-Muslim" fire that is starting to burn. It may not be their version of Islam, but it is a version that many leaders in their community adhere too.<br><br>
Reform has to come from within the Islamic community. Me screaming it at the top of my lungs won't achieve much, and in fact as you say may make things worse if the majority of Muslims are saying "nothing to do with us".<br><br>
As I said, Muslims in the west that have reformed their faith are hugely important, and we need them speaking up and condemming this shit. We need them to speak the loudest for Islam. Sticking their heads in the sand and saying "nothing to do with Islam" only makes things worse. The article linked above is exactly what they need to do - have a physical presence in showing solidarity to the victims.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I don't really get where this sureal idea that muslims aren't doing this comes from. I get most of you have zero interest in anything positive & the only time you actually read anything Islam related is when ISIS behead someone, but that is not the same as its not happening. For example -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/02/egypts-grand-mufti-says-harming-gays-is-unacceptable-even-as-lgbt-crackdown-continues/'>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/02/egypts-grand-mufti-says-harming-gays-is-unacceptable-even-as-lgbt-crackdown-continues/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thats the fricking Grand Mufti of one of the most prominant & populous muslim countries condeming the Orlando attack & saying gays should not be harmed. You don't get much bigger than that, nor much more head-out-of sand & WAY above the parapet. Yet clearly this sort of thing is utterly missed by those on here demanding that Muslims show some signs of reform. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="604063" data-time="1470647967"><p>I don't really get where this sureal idea that muslims aren't doing this comes from. I get most of you have zero interest in anything positive & the only time you actually read anything Islam related is when ISIS behead someone, but that is not the same as its not happening. For example -<br>
<br><a class="bbc_url" href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/02/egypts-grand-mufti-says-harming-gays-is-unacceptable-even-as-lgbt-crackdown-continues/">https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/02/egypts-grand-mufti-says-harming-gays-is-unacceptable-even-as-lgbt-crackdown-continues/</a><br>
<br>
Thats the fricking Grand Mufti of one of the most prominant & populous muslim countries condeming the Orlando attack & saying gays should not be harmed. You don't get much bigger than that, nor much more head-out-of sand & WAY above the parapet. Yet clearly this sort of thing is utterly missed by those on here demanding that Muslims show some signs of reform.<br></p></blockquote>Thats because it doesn't get much worldwide press and it doesn't fit the narrative -
<p>Ever since Gollum posted this info graphic a few weeks ago:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/the-scale-of-terrorist-attacks-around-the-world/'>https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/the-scale-of-terrorist-attacks-around-the-world/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>It shows the western deaths (Europe and Americas) attributable to Islamic Terrorism and the rest of the world deaths attributable to Islamic terrorism since January 2015 - 658 to 28,031 if you're interested</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I've been wondering if this "Islamic threat" isn't pretty much the biggest media build up ever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I mean less than 700 deaths over a year and a half is hardly a significant number and hardly spell the end of civilisation as we know it, does it?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And yet the publicity and hysteria (people actually afraid to travel to Europe based on the statistical likelihood of being killed) suggests there's far more of a threat.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You'd be more likely to die in a car crash, food poisoning, airplane crash (or get shot down - no real outcome there that I can recall), food poisoning, shark attack, lightening strike or get randomly murdered.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yet it appears that everyone is on tenterhooks and frightened or worried about Islamic extremists. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>We all pour over a mass murder story trying to link or not link it to Islam. Why the fervour? The numbers don't back it up.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Because it gets saturated media attention giving the impression that your next trip to buy milk could be your last</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We'd be better to pour all the resources (or at least a proportion of them into) cancer, SIDS, road safety, firearm safety or any number of actual threats to human lives.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Not saying it's a storm in a teacup but for a scourge that apparently threatens our lives, 658 deaths in 18 months is not a lot.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also surely the excess media coverage actually fuels fucksticks like ISIS. There's a reason this latest extremist movement and recruiting of non muslims suicide bombers has emerged in the social/mass media age. For every million people that are disgusted by these fluffybunnys there are a hundred that are drawn to them. The media actually does all their recruiting and advertising for the cuntwads.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We can't stop religion (never will) but if we really want ISIS to be gone then perhaps a radical move like not feeding them with publicity will make them die out - far more realistic than "majicking" religion away. Conversely we're at the point now that every nutjob takes out a group of people (like has happened since the dawn of time, well weapons really) and we almost implore ISIS to reveal whether it was one of them or at least influenced by them. And when ISIS do "claim" credit we all nod wisely and posters on this forum see it as conclusive evidence - ignoring that we're taking the word of complete fluffybunnys (perhaps they are responsible but how come we're relying on the honesty of those retards?). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Make no reference tot he fluffybunnys ever would be my strategy. Cut off their life support - publicity and notoriety</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The current media hysteria actually reminds me a bit of Saddam Hussein's WMDs - and we all know how much of a real threat that was</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In summary, I actually posit that we're all getting led by the snout into Islamic extremist hysteria. If anyone should have a beef it should be some of the 28,031 group of countries and citizens</p> -
<p>Indeed, theres some stat that has been used a LOT in the states re Americans killed by guns v Americans killed by Islamists since 9/11 (the beginning of the war on terror) & its basically 360,000 v 500.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yet Muslims running rampage is the core threat of our times.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>For Kiwis you could probably do NZers killed by cows v Islamists & it'd be 10 / 0, or Kiwis killed by a pissed up NZer punching them in the head etc, yet a surprisingly large number of Kiwis see Islam as the great threat of our times. I can probably think of 10 things off the top of my head that have a far greater threat level. </p> -
<br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="604081" data-time="1470654897"><p>or Kiwis killed by a pissed up NZer punching them in the head etc,</p></blockquote>
<br><br>
The REAL question is: why don't we see OTHER pissed up NZers publicly condemning the antics of THESE pissed up NZers?<br><br>
:think: -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="604063" data-time="1470647967">
<div>
<p>I don't really get where this sureal idea that muslims aren't doing this comes from. I get most of you have zero interest in anything positive & the only time you actually read anything Islam related is when ISIS behead someone, but that is not the same as its not happening. For example -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/02/egypts-grand-mufti-says-harming-gays-is-unacceptable-even-as-lgbt-crackdown-continues/'>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/02/egypts-grand-mufti-says-harming-gays-is-unacceptable-even-as-lgbt-crackdown-continues/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thats the fricking Grand Mufti of one of the most prominant & populous muslim countries condeming the Orlando attack & saying gays should not be harmed. You don't get much bigger than that, nor much more head-out-of sand & WAY above the parapet. Yet clearly this sort of thing is utterly missed by those on here demanding that Muslims show some signs of reform. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Did you even read the article you linked?</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p> </p>
<p>Egypt does not have a specific law banning homosexuality. But a 2013 Pew Research Center study found that <strong>95 percent of people surveyed in Egypt believe homosexuality should be rejected.</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Allam, who took the position of grand mufti in 2013, is widely known for his moderate views, and his comments on homosexuality <strong>come in stark contrast with other religious authorities in Egypt.</strong></p>
<div> </div>
<div>Imam Sheikh Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, who leads the al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, said during a local television interview in June, that <strong>"no Muslim society could ever consider sexual liberty, homosexuality to be a personal right. Muslim societies consider these to be a disease that has to be <u>fought </u>and treated," </strong>according to the Middle East Media Research Institute, which posted a video of the interview online.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>According to the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights, over the past few years, police have been monitoring websites and social media used by the LGBT community in Egypt, including Grindr, a gay dating application, and have set up fake accounts to entrap individuals.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"You have to be aware of everything you're doing; your clothes, your reactions toward people," a gay Egyptian told CNN, declining to reveal his name. "I'm always afraid if I meet someone and he is from the government than I'll get arrested like other people."</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>So while it is great there is someone like Shawki Allam that holds a position of some importance and has more moderate views, it is pretty clear that not many people (in Egypt anyway) are paying him much attention....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Which goes back to my earlier question - who speaks for Islam? I'd say the 95% figure is more representative of the views of Muslims in Egypt at the moment.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong though, as I mentioned earlier people like Allam and other moderate Muslims are hugely important in reducing the amount of discrimination and violence associated with Islam.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="604075" data-time="1470651961">
<div>
<p>Ever since Gollum posted this info graphic a few weeks ago:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/the-scale-of-terrorist-attacks-around-the-world/'>https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/the-scale-of-terrorist-attacks-around-the-world/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>It shows the western deaths (Europe and Americas) attributable to Islamic Terrorism and the rest of the world deaths attributable to Islamic terrorism since January 2015 - 658 to 28,031 if you're interested</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I've been wondering if this "Islamic threat" isn't pretty much the biggest media build up ever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I mean less than 700 deaths over a year and a half is hardly a significant number and hardly spell the end of civilisation as we know it, does it?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And yet the publicity and hysteria (people actually afraid to travel to Europe based on the statistical likelihood of being killed) suggests there's far more of a threat.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You'd be more likely to die in a car crash, food poisoning, airplane crash (or get shot down - no real outcome there that I can recall), food poisoning, shark attack, lightening strike or get randomly murdered.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yet it appears that everyone is on tenterhooks and frightened or worried about Islamic extremists. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>We all pour over a mass murder story trying to link or not link it to Islam. Why the fervour? The numbers don't back it up.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Because it gets saturated media attention giving the impression that your next trip to buy milk could be your last</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We'd be better to pour all the resources (or at least a proportion of them into) cancer, SIDS, road safety, firearm safety or any number of actual threats to human lives.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Not saying it's a storm in a teacup but for a scourge that apparently threatens our lives, 658 deaths in 18 months is not a lot.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Also surely the excess media coverage actually fuels fucksticks like ISIS. There's a reason this latest extremist movement and recruiting of non muslims suicide bombers has emerged in the social/mass media age. For every million people that are disgusted by these fluffybunnys there are a hundred that are drawn to them. The media actually does all their recruiting and advertising for the cuntwads.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We can't stop religion (never will) but if we really want ISIS to be gone then perhaps a radical move like not feeding them with publicity will make them die out - far more realistic than "majicking" religion away. Conversely we're at the point now that every nutjob takes out a group of people (like has happened since the dawn of time, well weapons really) and we almost implore ISIS to reveal whether it was one of them or at least influenced by them. And when ISIS do "claim" credit we all nod wisely and posters on this forum see it as conclusive evidence - ignoring that we're taking the word of complete fluffybunnys (perhaps they are responsible but how come we're relying on the honesty of those retards?). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Make no reference tot he fluffybunnys ever would be my strategy. Cut off their life support - publicity and notoriety</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The current media hysteria actually reminds me a bit of Saddam Hussein's WMDs - and we all know how much of a real threat that was</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In summary, I actually posit that we're all getting led by the snout into Islamic extremist hysteria. If anyone should have a beef it should be some of the 28,031 group of countries and citizens</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Not reporting on them killing 50 odd people in a suicidal attack (yeah right) won't stop them gaining followers - they do that via <em>social </em>media, not mainstream media.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But the problems with Islam stretch well beyond just ISIS. As the article that gollum linked (thanks gollum) clearly shows.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="604094" data-time="1470659060">
<div>
<p>Did you even read the article you linked?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So while it is great there is someone like Shawki Allam that holds a position of some importance and has more moderate views,<strong><em> it is pretty clear that not many people (in Egypt anyway) are paying him much attention...</em></strong>.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Which goes back to my earlier question - who speaks for Islam? I'd say the 95% figure is more representative of the views of Muslims in Egypt at the moment.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong though, as I mentioned earlier people like Allam and other moderate Muslims are hugely important in reducing the amount of discrimination and violence associated with Islam.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>But some people will. And that's how this happens. The more Anti Islam on here have 2 lines - one, no moderate guys are doing shit, well thats utter bullshit, and 2 that Islam needs to reform overnight- just like Christianity didn't. Just like no movement ever has, womens votes, black rights, gay rights, none of that happens overnight, it happens when 1 part go "this should happen", then more, then more, till its mainstream. And Islam is categorically doing that. 20 years ago the gay marriage is OK group in the states was probably 10% tops. Less in the south. Now its legal in most places. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It becomes a circular bullshit argument - "Muslims aren't speaking out! oh.. Ok so they are, well, they are not speaking out enough!! How much is enough? Um... well pick an amount that cannot be hit, that amount, thats the amount I demand to quell my moral outrage over 1.3 billion I actually have ZERO direct interaction with & who do not threaten me in any way at all!!"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I actually don't mind the small minded aspect of that - the idea that "the other" should be wiped out, thats human nature, for all of human history that's been the default. It still very much happens anywhere the veil of civillisation comes off.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its the ignorance as to what is actually being done that pisses me off. That and the idea they way to combat ISIS is to tell Mohamed jokes, like thats a core method & if we all got behind it poof! no more Islam. I mean sure, it worked with the IRA, they bombed England, killed folks, but eventually they got so sick of the "Irishman is dumb!" jokes they went "we give up, just please stop the jokes!!". So I can see the logic. Same with the PLO & people calling Yasir Arafats hat a tea towel, eventually that just wore them down.</p>
<p> <br><br>
</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="604075" data-time="1470651961">
<div>
<p>Ever since Gollum posted this info graphic a few weeks ago:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/the-scale-of-terrorist-attacks-around-the-world/'>https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/world/the-scale-of-terrorist-attacks-around-the-world/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>It shows the western deaths (Europe and Americas) attributable to Islamic Terrorism and the rest of the world deaths attributable to Islamic terrorism since January 2015 - 658 to 28,031 if you're interested</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I've been wondering if this "Islamic threat" isn't pretty much the biggest media build up ever.</p>
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<p>I mean less than 700 deaths over a year and a half is hardly a significant number and hardly spell the end of civilisation as we know it, does it?</p>
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<p>Looking at the murder stats without context is silly. This line of arguing supposes that the only way something can negatively impact your life is if it kills you. Millions of people throughout the world live in oppressive circumstances be they gay, Christian, women etc. because they are in a Muslim majority country. Look at the way that the Coptics have had their churches destroyed after the Arab spring in Egypt. I read a story a few weeks ago about a couple of Christian kids being sent to jail for blasphemy against Allah. Yes, blasphemy laws still exist in the 21st century, whats up with that? </p>
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<p>Of topical significance it wasn't until 2012 that Saudi Arabia sent women to the Olympic games and that was only due to pressure from the IOC that they would be banned from competing altogether not because they came to the realization that treating women like second class citizens is absurd. </p> -
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<p>Well there's this that suggest you just might be anti-muslim:-</p>
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<p>Quote BSG, Orlando thread "<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Oh yeah.. poor Muslims.. my heart bleeds. </span><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Must be horrible to have all those nasty words said about your religion. Much better to ahve bullets and bombs thrown at you." <strong>Out of context, I was illustrating how little sympathy I have for Western Muslims having mean words said about their religion when compared to people actually dying. </strong></span></p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">or this from the same thread:- "</span><span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">I do my bit to to tangibly support free speech dont worry about that. I have little chance of getting <strong>Muslims</strong> to change" <strong>Yes and? You think I have a big chance of changing Muslims minds? Or that I dont support free speech?</strong></span></p>
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<p>And from the same thread you suggested that "all that follow the ideology and do not openly criticise the hateful elements of it" are worthy of your ire. <strong>They are, dont you think they are?? You think those that don't condemn the murder of homosexuals, the slavery of others.. they shouldn't draw ire? That is just appeasement of evil.</strong></p>
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<p>​Then there was your comment about making all immigrants eat bacon to prove they're not Muslim. <strong>Again out of context and not accurate.</strong></p>
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<p>All of the above are indicative of an anti-muslim outlook. In this and other threads you have been very open about distancing the religion from the people but have also made many comments that suggest otherwise. You may feel you aren't anti-muslim and you can point out many things you've said that supports this but bear in mind if you spend most of your life not sucking dick but only do it now and again, then you're still seen as a cocksucker. <strong>Bullshit. All the above is just indicative of you making assumptions to support an attempt at false balance.</strong></p>
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<p>I've probably (hopefully) said all I want to on this subject, in this manner. It's much easier to argue the toss face to face where we would end up either buying each other beer or punching each other in the face - maybe even both. You have your view on the subject and I have mine. Neither position seems likely to change. <strong>Yeah that happens when you assign positions to others that they never actually took. If this is the best evidence you have to support your assertion, I am underwhelmed.</strong></p>
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