Euthanasia yes or no



  • Was reading this today and wondering what others thought https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/11/assisted-dying-california-law-betsy-davis
    I'm in favour of it and its great that she got to go out on her own terms and say goodbye. My mother used to be a nurse and is against it, her thinking is that selfish relatives might think that granny is a hassle to have living with them and she's left them money in the will so they'll pressure her into ending things. I doubt that, i'm sure as a society we can put sort robust checks in place to ensure that doesn't happen.
     
    Whats your take on it?



  • Arguably your most basic human right I'd presume.
    I'm for it largely because of how technology has offered a robust method, thinking of that Aussie doctor's method etc
    But
    It pretty much relies on a sound mind and decision and that's where things get murky



  • As long as you have an advanced care plan or are capable of expressing your desires, I'm all for it. Some people may be unable to end their life after they've decided that the quality of life isn't there anymore. Who am I to deny them?



  • As soon as I'm 85 I'm buying a one way ticket to Zurich



  • I'm ambivalent. The high profile cases in the media are usually pretty clear cut candidates for legalised euthanasia, but "we'll know it when we see it" doesn't make for great policy - I'd want to see it really carefully thought through. The grey areas in the middle and sorts of people that Jegga's mother worries about also worry me a little.



  • I would prefer to have the choice myself . There would have to be checks in place and a few hoops to jump through though to stop the circumstances mentioned above from occurring



  • My mother used to be a nurse and is against it, her thinking is that selfish relatives might think that granny is a hassle to have living with them and she's left them money in the will so they'll pressure her into ending things. I doubt that, i'm sure as a society we can put sort robust checks in place to ensure that doesn't happen.
     
    Whats your take on it?

    My mum was an RN for 40+ years and is all in favour of it. To the point where I suspect the old bird has probably seen it go down a couple of times, particularly during her time in aged care.
     
    In fact, she's down as DNR if she gets into an appropriate state.
     
    In any case, I think the right protocols have to be in place - psych assessments, physical suitability, prior instructions, numerous medical evaluations.
     
    I don't see why not.



  • Yep all for it. Then again thats easy to say until someone you care for wants it



  • We will put the dog down to keep it from suffering but will often do everything in our power to keep people alive even after all dignity and will to live is gone.
    The ones that worry me are the ones who may opt for death because they no longer what to be a burden or an inconvenience. I am thinking of the same people who remain on the kitchen floor with a broken arm and not asking for help because they didn't want a fuss made. Interviews may not identify these people because they will know the right things to say.
    I am a fence sitter on this one.



  • All in favour of it. Throw in some basic checks, eg 2 doctors sign off on it purely from a medical & competency point of view & its all good.
     
    Had a few family members die of cancer & thats 1 month of good stuff - still doing OK, saying goodbye to everyone, chatting through stuff that should have been sorted, then a month of pain & zero dignity & often so much drugs that they didn't know who was there or what they were saying. All concerned could have done with skipping that last month.
     
    Same with shit like dementia, you get diagnosed with that you should be able to set up a sort of will that lets them cap you when you've totally lost it.



  • That's the thing I reckon: when they're no longer the person they were through the intervention of drugs, or the serious loss of faculty.



  • My mum was an RN for 40+ years and is all in favour of it. To the point where I suspect the old bird has probably seen it go down a couple of times, particularly during her time in aged care.

    I've heard a few stories - it was amazing how accurate doctors were at predicting imminent death once the family had arrived from all ends of the earth...



  • Put me down as a yes with the appropriate checks and balances. What those checks and balances may be probably needs some further diiscussion.



  • The greater good would suggest that euthanasia is a good idea. The amount of people that could have their pain and misery alleviated would be significant but weighed against this is the old adage that human life is sacred (yes, up until the point your Government asks you to go to war and kill or die for your country). Whatever checks and balances that could be put in it is inevitable that there will be abuses. The question is can we live with the abuses for the common good? I'm with the Crazy Nag, sitting on the fence.



  • Put me down as a yes with the appropriate checks and balances. What those checks and balances may be probably needs some further diiscussion.

    deliberate?
     
    Is a tough one, as above, often the person may not be in a state to give consent, but then, that is part of the problem, and too many people don't have a will, let alone instructions about what should happen to them in the event of needing life support.



  • Had a few family members die of cancer & thats 1 month of good stuff - still doing OK, saying goodbye to everyone, chatting through stuff that should have been sorted, then a month of pain & zero dignity & often so much drugs that they didn't know who was there or what they were saying. All concerned could have done with skipping that last month.

    Hindsight is a marvellous thing, here, and it's what makes it such a tough debate (not having a go at you at all).
     
    After the one month, you think the family member might be OK, or even getting better. They are unwilling to 'pull the plug' at this point because they are healthy and could have months or years left. But then things get worse quickly, and either it's too late (they are not of sound mind) or you think they might come out of it. It's a fucking HUGE decision at any point to say 'yep, let's end it now'.
     
    99% of cases I've heard of successful euthanasia (if you can call it that) is folks who were so fucking determined to do it, it almost defined them. And they did it before they began to go downhill.
     
    FWIW I think it should be available, but I'm not sure how that looks in reality. A lot of people say they would do it, but when it comes to it it's such a massive call that not many actually do. Just having the option there would be a real comfort to a lot of people IMO.
     
    The bigger conversation for mine is around managing death better than we do now, investment in palliative care and educating people (and doctors) about making the call to stop treatment and face their death. All the studies show that people who embrace a fatal diagnosis earlier and stop treatment live better and longer lives than those who cling on and go through round after round of chemo etc.



  • The bigger conversation for mine is around managing death better than we do now, investment in palliative care and educating people (and doctors) about making the call to stop treatment and face their death. All the studies show that people who embrace a fatal diagnosis earlier and stop treatment live better and longer lives than those who cling on and go through round after round of chemo etc.

    I think Crowe is a case in point there. Once he stopped treatment and and just went about enjoying the time he had left he seemed much more relaxed and "at peace".



  • Good post Barbarian , my father had emphysema which is a long drawn out way to go. My step mum found out he was having the odd smoke even though he'd told her he quit and she marched him down to the doctor expecting a lecture and instead he told her that my dad was on countdown and if he wanted to have a beer or a smoke now and then it was fine by him .i thought was a pretty honest way of looking at things.



  • I think the last century has seen a slowly degradation in the way in which human society handles death.
     
    A hundred years ago people would get death portraits. Now they;re getting their dogs cloned because they love them so much. FFS!
     
    When mortality rates were higher, and life expectancy lower, I think the realities of it didn't give people time to fuck around.
     
    Palliative and aged care are also big business, and only getting bigger.



  • I blame climate change. Much harder to put granny on an ice floe these days....
     
    It's our quest for immortality. I don't want to live forever if it means declining quality of life, hence why it's important to advise people about your wishes. Advanced care plans dictate with legal enforcement in Australia regarding the refusal or withdrawal of medical treatment. It doesn't even have to be a current illness for most jurisdictions, unlike Victoria.