All Blacks 2025
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
I think midfield could be helped by a better 10
Maybe we are being a bit too harsh on BB and overlook his better points (which clearly doesn't include his kicking). That said, he's getting long in the tooth and I'd be tempted to give Love a start and poss. Reihana a bench spot (though not at the same time)
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
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@Victor-Meldrew can't disagree with any of that.
Time for Love to at least have time at 10 /15, no point waiting.
Give Jordie - Proctor/QT time hopefully it will gel.
Selections much better than last year.
The heat is on SB as PT/Holland/Vaai all playing well. -
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
Except for Parker all the other ones I mentioned.
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@Victor-Meldrew I think better use of our bench would help too, under Razor we really have struggled in the 2nd half and later stages of games, so much so, that we have lost games in the period, something that we never used to do, we owned the last quarter.
TBF to Razor to an extent, we have lacked the finishing ability for many years now, so it is up to him to change that.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew I think better use of our bench would help too, under Razor we really have struggled in the 2nd half and later stages of games, so much so, that we have lost games in the period, something that we never used to do, we owned the last quarter.
TBF to Razor to an extent, we have lacked the finishing ability for many years now, so it is up to him to change that.
Well we drew the last two quarters so its better than losing the last two. To their credit they have tried bringing in some impact bench players into the squad and they have been bringing them on early than last year.
However positional rearrangement is disruptive to the team and individual players.
Vaa'i moves from blindside to lock.
Ardie moves from 7 to 8.
Finau comes on at lock.
Ideally the bench should be set up so that the player coming on requires no positional rearrangement. If Ardie is the 7 moving forward then it would be better to have a player that covers all three positions. Apart from rest Ardie is the least likely player to be replaced. So it makes no sense having a specialist 7 on the bench when he should stay at 7.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
He's played 10 tests (5 starts) ...
Yeah that’s enough
Like we should have dropped Vaa'i in 2022...
different beast lets jut keep Finau he might come good in 10 years.
We have other options.Name the currently fit and available ones.
Except for Parker all the other ones I mentioned.
Where? I followed the quote train back to https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/1061987 and don't see a list.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
And you replace him with ... ?
Parker when fit
Dalton Papali'i Try him at 6 he has the size
Ah Kuoi he is big enough
Howden looks promising
All have more grunt imo.@antipodean you didn't look hard enough.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Agree with all of this except Finau. Finau should be persevered with. He's been no where near as bad as you make out, he's still young, and he's the best loose forward athlete in NZ under 30.
He is too passive for me unless he is hitting First fives,I think he has been given enough chances.
And you replace him with ... ?
Parker when fit
Dalton Papali'i Try him at 6 he has the size
Ah Kuoi he is big enough
Howden looks promising
All have more grunt imo.Practically everyone agrees Parker when fit needs to be offered an opportunity.
Dalton has been tried at 6 and that wasn't a resounding success. He's also short for a blindside when what we're looking for his height. Especially if we're going to continue selecting midgets who either won't hit rucks or are ineffective when they do.
Ah Kuoi is reflective of New Zealand's dearth of proper lock sized individuals and in SA for example would just be a loose forward. But his stats don't show he has more grunt and as a lock he's well down the pecking order.
TK Howden is young with potential upside, but his standard of play doesn't justify AB selection.@antipodean you didn't look hard enough.
Yeah I'm going to go trawling through the thread for your shit takes. Just link it next time instead of being a bitch.
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1 game at 6 for Dalton probably isn't a fair representation of his capabilities. He won 4 or 5 lineouts in that game. It didn't help him or the team we got the red card in that game. It makes it difficult for loose forwards to gain ascendancy when they are missing a tight five.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
A good summary. Only add-on's I'll make is.
Pros: Set piece is looking a lot more solid as well as the maul, players have been picked on form, selections are more consistent (e.g. Patty T replacing Scooter at lock and kepin Vaa'i at 6 instead of throwing Vaa's back into lock, there's logic there instead of a lolly scramble).
Cons: Sub-standard use of the bench - the thinking is confused and the impact off the bench is still poor. Our backline attack while looking more settled is insipid, we can't seem to create space out wide for our backs to utilise even with a dominant forward pack.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
A good summary. Only add-on's I'll make is.
Pros: Set piece is looking a lot more solid as well as the maul, players have been picked on form, selections are more consistent (e.g. Patty T replacing Scooter at lock and kepin Vaa'i at 6 instead of throwing Vaa's back into lock, there's logic there instead of a lolly scramble).
Cons: Sub-standard use of the bench - the thinking is confused and the impact off the bench is still poor. Our backline attack while looking more settled is insipid, we can't seem to create space out wide for our backs to utilise even with a dominant forward pack.
I think this has become an overrated / overused term.
I’m more inclined now to pick players on the bench that yes cover positional moves but more importantly play the game plan that has been played for the first 40-50 minutes where success has been had.
Does the game slow or quicken up in the last 20 minutes? I don’t see any real evidence of that these days. I think fan expectation is that player x comes on and all of a sudden we need to speed it up or ‘get it to them’. For me keep a more consistent pattern is paramount. Seamless rather than impact
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
I'm more confident now with the ABs than anytime in the last 5 years
Anyone else agree.Hard to say until we've played a top-tier A team like the Boks, but liking much of what I've seen this year
Pros: The tight 5 look good, Trying things at 6/7/8. 9, Jordie looks solid. Giving players plenty of game time to develop. Willingness to experiment. Discipline better. Exits better. Less panic when under pressure.
Cons: Kicking still shite. Unsettled/uninspiring midfield. 10 a big issue. Team still goes to sleep too often. Unconvinced about captaincy. A lack of ruthlessness at times.
A good summary. Only add-on's I'll make is.
Pros: Set piece is looking a lot more solid as well as the maul, players have been picked on form, selections are more consistent (e.g. Patty T replacing Scooter at lock and kepin Vaa'i at 6 instead of throwing Vaa's back into lock, there's logic there instead of a lolly scramble).
Cons: Sub-standard use of the bench - the thinking is confused and the impact off the bench is still poor. Our backline attack while looking more settled is insipid, we can't seem to create space out wide for our backs to utilise even with a dominant forward pack.
I think this has become an overrated / overused term.
I’m more inclined now to pick players on the bench that yes cover positional moves but more importantly play the game plan that has been played for the first 40-50 minutes where success has been had.
Does the game slow or quicken up in the last 20 minutes? I don’t see any real evidence of that these days. I think fan expectation is that player x comes on and all of a sudden we need to speed it up or ‘get it to them’. For me keep a more consistent pattern is paramount. Seamless rather than impact
I agree with you completly on this.
The AB's appear to be several years behind in the thinking/utilisation of impact players in that they have to come on and dazzle it up with displays of indivdual skill rather than unit(s) coming on to replace tired legs so we can execute the gameplan more effectively or over the entire 80 minutes.
Last year a classic case in point where we would execute for 60 minutes while the final 20 absolutely went to pieces.
Perhaps I need to rephrase it to say that the bench needs to have a positive impact on the game/gameplan execution rather than the negative one I've seen for most of last year (and this year threaten's the same).
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