Black Caps v South Africa
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v South Africa:
So Guptill needs to play for Auckland in the middle order first.
"Mike Hesson confirms he won the coaching lottery when he made McCullum Captain."
I'm sure the Proteas pace attack and fielders will give Henry Nicholls the same number of let-offs as Bangladesh did, so it'll be sweet.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v South Africa:
Personally I can't believe they haven't tried Guppy at 5 already, I've been calling for it since basically the beginning of his career. His hard hitting style has never suited opening, he was only there because we had decent enough options down the order and 0 options to open.
They have. He averages 68 there. From 6 innings.
On the other hand he's also been tried at 6 for two inning and averages 2.
I guess I'm not surprised they're not picking him immediately in the lower middle order. He would have been dropped from opening much earlier if most of us had got our way and so he probably also needs to wait longer than us knee jerk selectors want as well. When and if he eventually gets picked in the middle order he needs to be given at least a dozen innings to succeed, so it's probably not the time to rush him in and then decide "that hasn't worked".
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v South Africa:
If Hesson and Larsen are so driven by stats to justify their selections then Nicholls needs to perform vs SA to get continually selected.
Did anyone see Nicholls 98? From listening on the radio it sounded like he struggled....not exactly encouraging given who he'd be facing against S.A.....
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@MN5 I thought Nicholls looked OK until he got into the 90s when he got a major case of the yips. But the Bangles pace attack aren't the same quality as SA's. Latham has been struggling with the extra pace in the current series as a comparison.
I'll add Nicholl's last inning in SA will give him some credit in the bank.
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@Bovidae said in Black Caps v South Africa:
@MN5 I thought Nicholls looked OK until he got into the 90s when he got a major case of the yips. But the Bangles pace attack aren't the same quality as SA's. Latham has been struggling with the extra pace in the current series as a comparison.
I'll add Nicholl's last inning in SA will give him some credit in the bank.
Well I think it's a given that Nicholls will be at 5 in the tests given NZ cricket isn't really in a position to drop a guy who got 98 in his last dig.
Guptill sure is an enigma. I compared him to Michael Bevan ( another outstanding ODI batsman but ordinary test player ) but Bevan was competing against any number of very good to legendary batsmen in the five day format.....aside from KW and Taylor who exactly fits that Bill for the BCs?
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I don't really buy Guptil as a test batsman anywhere.
In ODIs if you loook at his strength its playing off the front foot straight through the ball. He drives on the up superbly, often for 6. He pulls incredibly well in front of square - off the front foot half the time. You try that as your "go to" in tests you are out pretty fast. Red ball moves more off the seam for far longer than a white ball. There are more fielders in place behind the bat, bowlers bowl shorter etc. Literally everything in test cricket is against a guy who's one textbook shot is a front foot straight drive on the up.
As for moving to the lower middle order. Yup totally, so long as he has fast feet & can get forward & back like lightning, because thats the key for every successful 5, they have to be able to cut late & fine, let the ball come on to them & move to the back foot fast to work it off their hip etc. Michael Clarke was outstanding at that.
Again, not sure thats Guppy...
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That's a good analysis Gollum.
He does pretty much plant the front foot and make magic from there, hence his dismissals in test cricket are often plumb and caught behind.I'm inclined (hopeful) Hesson et al see the same type of thing and thinking
You've also described the hallmarks of Baz's batting, not the same league as Pup but similar attributes
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@Siam said in Black Caps v South Africa:
You've also described the hallmarks of Baz's batting, not the same league as Pup but similar attributes
Yeah, Baz was very fast on his feet, far better suited to 5 than opening - and better suited to 5 than Guppy in my opinion, probably the thing he lost in comparison to Clarke was Baz pre-meditated a lot & relied on his hand speed to bail him out, whereas Clarke, like all great players (Kane does this) just decided as late as possible.
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Remembering Marty
On his first death anniversary, Martin Crowe's editor and close friend recalls his inspiring final years
Long piece from Cricinfo on the anniversary of Martin Crowe being incorrectly given out with no reviews left..
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@gollum said in Black Caps v South Africa:
I don't really buy Guptil as a test batsman anywhere.
In ODIs if you loook at his strength its playing off the front foot straight through the ball. He drives on the up superbly, often for 6. He pulls incredibly well in front of square - off the front foot half the time. You try that as your "go to" in tests you are out pretty fast. Red ball moves more off the seam for far longer than a white ball. There are more fielders in place behind the bat, bowlers bowl shorter etc. Literally everything in test cricket is against a guy who's one textbook shot is a front foot straight drive on the up.
As for moving to the lower middle order. Yup totally, so long as he has fast feet & can get forward & back like lightning, because thats the key for every successful 5, they have to be able to cut late & fine, let the ball come on to them & move to the back foot fast to work it off their hip etc. Michael Clarke was outstanding at that.
Again, not sure thats Guppy...
Chris Gayle and Virhender Sehwag did alot of the above ( that Guptil does ), opened, and averaged 42 and 49 in test cricket respectively.
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@gollum you've described Guppy's shortcomings in test cricket well. However I'm not sure it means he can't be successful. Astle was another player who's stock shot was planting the front foot and driving on the up. Granted he had to make some adjustments to his game but he had plenty of success at 5 at test level. I'm not expecting Guppy to average 50+ but I think he is more then capable of high 30s - low 40s. But not opening, otherwise those shortcomings get badly exposed by the new ball every single innings.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v South Africa:
@gollum you've described Guppy's shortcomings in test cricket well. However I'm not sure it means he can't be successful. Astle was another player who's stock shot was planting the front foot and driving on the up. Granted he had to make some adjustments to his game but he had plenty of success at 5 at test level. I'm not expecting Guppy to average 50+ but I think he is more then capable of high 30s - low 40s. But not opening, otherwise those shortcomings get badly exposed by the new ball every single innings.
Those shortcomings don't necessarily prevent him from being one of the top 5-6 batsmen in NZ in the longer form of the game either. I cannot make a list of 6 batsmen in the country with fewer flaws and less fatal flaws than them.
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I would think that the biggest work-on for Guptill batting at 5 will be his ability to play spin and rotate the strike. He always looks much more comfortable against pace bowling with the ball coming onto the bat but struggles and remains crease-bound against slower bowlers. While he played Tahir well in Hamilton different field settings and pitch conditions in a test will dictate he will need to be more measured in his approach.
That said, I hope he gets an opportunity to prove he can make that transition.
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@Hooroo said in Black Caps v South Africa:
@booboo said in Black Caps v South Africa:
Shitbloodyfarking!
Fucking Fox not showing the cricket (well this cricket) live!!
It's delayed starting at 4.30!!
It's alright bruv, we can text you the result.....
Even Mrs boo was working out to get the housework done and any shopping and errands out of the way cricket kickoff ...
Farking
