Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?
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Other point I thought I'd make is that Japan's development system is horribly broken. Kids play one sport only so don't get the chance to really dabble at different sports.
The top high schools are so much better than the others, meaning there are some talented kids who rarely play hard games. Not to mention the university system where kids who could be playing pro rugby aren't.
Lastly there are prefectures where rugby is barely played.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
It will happen. Eventually. But that will probably be in an era when helmets are mandatory.
Indeed. Willy-waving should be an essential part of the players' and fans' experience.
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Loving the call for Georgia to form a 7 Nations, but not Japan to make a 5 Nations.
Georgia are playing Wales and Japan playing Australia and France in the Autumn Internationals.
Will be interesting to see how they both fare.
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@MiketheSnow Tblisi - Dublin 3,960 kilometres Tokyo - Buenos Aires 18,358
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@dogmeat said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
@MiketheSnow Tblisi - Dublin 3,960 kilometres Tokyo - Buenos Aires 18,358
Less about geographical distance and more about ability distance.
And whilst a trip to Tblisi would be great - I've been, and Georgia is magic - does the 6N need them?
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I understand the importance of the history in the 5N, but surely a promotion/ relegation system has to come in sooner or later if World Rugby is serious about growing the game?
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My issue about Japan would be that it would ruin the 'authenticity' of the comp as a de facto SH Championship.
There is some prestige / authenticity in that.
If it's just a competition of teams with financially viable potential
TV deals who are not in the 6Ns, then it loses a lot for me.I place value in the continental or hemispheric authenticity.
If we were to do a separate* Asia-Pacific champs or Pacific Rim champs then yes I'd be for it.
*Separate, not instead of.
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If I was Steve Tew.
My suggestion to get Japan into a competition.
Create a Pcific Rim Cup.
8 nations: NZ, Aus, Japan, Canada, USA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga.2 pools of 4, = 3 games each. Then a final.
Home and away structure, sort of, 2 home & 1 away or vice versa. (Then a grand final).
Draw should be random rather than seeded so there is a chance nz and Aus are in same pool.Schedule this in the November international window (3 weeks), with either first round or final outside the window.
But, is a 4 yearly event (baby steps).
Voila. You have brought Japan and growing USA market into 'our' sphere.
It means NZ and Aus opt out of the NH November tours once every 4 years. This might have repercussions, seeing as it is reciprocal and all that ...... but seeing as there are 6 of 'them' wanting incoming tours from 4 of 'us' I think fall out will be minimal for the SH 'powers'.
Seeing as they've just approved a future 'global calender' I think, this can't be done for about 5 years.
So Steve, copy & paste this and hand it over to your successor to action in 2023 or whenever. This advice has been provided free of charge.
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@Rapido said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
If I was Steve Tew.
My suggestion to get Japan into a competition.
Create a Pcific Rim Cup.
8 nations: NZ, Aus, Japan, Canada, USA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga.2 pools of 4, = 3 games each. Then a final.
Home and away structure. (Excels final).
A very expensive operation, that will lose NZ large amounts of money. And not for better rugby either.
Other than Japan, none of the others can fill much of a stadium at paying rates. Advertising revenues would be close to zero. Meanwhile we would lose the chance to get good paying games in the NH.
We tried similar things in the past with the Maori and NZ A taking part -- and still winning. They weren't hugely successful, but at least gave our second tier players some experience.
If this was to get off the ground, many of the more experienced ABs would not play (take sabbaticals, have "injuries", be rested to avoid overwork and give new guys a run). I suspect it would be like those farcical RWC games where both sides know the result and run out their B side.
Does not get my vote, sorry. Good intentions don't pay the bills.
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This isn't about good intentions, this is about turning November (a cost) into a money-making month. But mostly, with longer term benefits rather than short term.
There would of course be unintended consequences not yet thought out. Some good, some bad. Like;
- The value of Arg & Saf in the NH during that November would increase.
- Georgia would get a look in for some November games against 6N sides in NZ & Aus's absence.
- the value of NZ & Aus for out of window games would increase due to in-window scarcity.
- lack of exposure to NH rugby might hurt nz, Aus on the field. Based on current swing of playing power away from sanzar.
- or a huge political inter-hemisphere shit fight, with financial ruin ......
Something I haven't considered in post above is that the NH November window happens only 3 out of every 4 years already due to RWC timing. Reducing NZ and Aus involvement to 2 out of 4 might be a stretch too far.
Of course the other option is the June window, but then I would agree with you that NZRU would take a big financial hit.
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@Rapido This is basically a variation of the Pacific Nations Cup (no need for another name). And if the JABs and Australia 'A' take part in this tournament again (not the ABs and Wallabies!), as has been done in the past, this tournament could be played more often than once every four years in the June window. It's nothing new, and should be easier to arrange.
In years of RWC qualification, they could - for that purpose - put the three PI countries in the same pool and Canada, USA and Japan in the same pool.
South Africa 'A', England 'A', Emerging Italy, Argentina XV etc are all "next senior level (XVs)" teams that play every, single year. They play either tournaments or tours. The Junior All Blacks, basically a combination of the Maori ABs and NZ Baabaas (teams both used for developing/giving game time for fringe All Blacks and up-and-coming ABs), would still beat countries like Japan, USA and Canada as the Maori ABs have done in the past. So participation of the JABs would benefit these countries and it would benefit the ABs. Japan (etc) could continue playing the (senior) ABs like they are doing now, as the first (or last) game of a November tour once every x years.
Once a country like Japan starts winning the PNC every single year, including regularly beating the JABs, they might be ready for joining the Rugby Championship.
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There was a Pacific Rim Cup before the Pacific Nations cup. It later changed its name to the sponsors Epsom Cup. It was USA, Can, Japan plus the 3 PI Nations.
It had IRB funding. Then got stopped after a few years by the IRB when it wasn't yet financially self funding. IRB had smaller pockets back then. Circa early 2000s.
The Pacific Nations Cup came a few years later. And has had many forms.
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@Rapido was also the CANZ comp too, cant recall exactly how it worked, but for the NZ teams it was those outside the big 5 who were in the Super 10?
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@taniwharugby The CANZ series was a round robin tournament. Originally it was North Auckland, Waikato and Otago from NZ, Canada and 2 Argentinean clubs (1989-90). North Harbour later joined and the Argies dropped out (1992).
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@Rapido said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
If I was Steve Tew.
My suggestion to get Japan into a competition.
Create a Pcific Rim Cup.
8 nations: NZ, Aus, Japan, Canada, USA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga.2 pools of 4, = 3 games each. Then a final.
Home and away structure, sort of, 2 home & 1 away or vice versa. (Then a grand final).
Draw should be random rather than seeded so there is a chance nz and Aus are in same pool.Schedule this in the November international window (3 weeks), with either first round or final outside the window.
But, is a 4 yearly event (baby steps).
Voila. You have brought Japan and growing USA market into 'our' sphere.
It means NZ and Aus opt out of the NH November tours once every 4 years. This might have repercussions, seeing as it is reciprocal and all that ...... but seeing as there are 6 of 'them' wanting incoming tours from 4 of 'us' I think fall out will be minimal for the SH 'powers'.
Seeing as they've just approved a future 'global calender' I think, this can't be done for about 5 years.
So Steve, copy & paste this and hand it over to your successor to action in 2023 or whenever. This advice has been provided free of charge.
That competition you have created sounds impressively boring. I can't see how that would work out financially for New Zealand. There is no big TV market in there in terms of rugby.
You can't really have a five Nations competition. You can't play everyone twice so you have to play everyone once. South Africa could easily win that this year if they played us in Ellis Park.
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@hydro11 said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
You can't really have a five Nations competition. You can't play everyone twice so you have to play everyone once. South Africa could easily win that this year if they played us in Ellis Park.
What does this mean? I'm not following you.
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@Rapido said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
My issue about Japan would be that it would ruin the 'authenticity' of the comp as a de facto SH Championship.
There is some prestige / authenticity in that.
If it's just a competition of teams with financially viable potential
TV deals who are not in the 6Ns, then it loses a lot for me.I place value in the continental or hemispheric authenticity.
If we were to do a separate* Asia-Pacific champs or Pacific Rim champs then yes I'd be for it.
*Separate, not instead of.
Fair enough about SH.
I think a trick was missed by not inviting a Georgian team - effectively comprised of the Georgian National team - into the Pro 12, much like the Jaguares and Sunwolves.
Regular competition against Irish, Italian, Scottish and Welsh clubs/regions
Entry to European club competition
Tests against NH and SH teams in Autumn windowThat's the way to see if Georgia is ready to be invited to join 6N
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@hydro11 said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
@Rapido said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
If I was Steve Tew.
My suggestion to get Japan into a competition.
Create a Pcific Rim Cup.
8 nations: NZ, Aus, Japan, Canada, USA, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga.2 pools of 4, = 3 games each. Then a final.
Home and away structure, sort of, 2 home & 1 away or vice versa. (Then a grand final).
Draw should be random rather than seeded so there is a chance nz and Aus are in same pool.Schedule this in the November international window (3 weeks), with either first round or final outside the window.
But, is a 4 yearly event (baby steps).
Voila. You have brought Japan and growing USA market into 'our' sphere.
It means NZ and Aus opt out of the NH November tours once every 4 years. This might have repercussions, seeing as it is reciprocal and all that ...... but seeing as there are 6 of 'them' wanting incoming tours from 4 of 'us' I think fall out will be minimal for the SH 'powers'.
Seeing as they've just approved a future 'global calender' I think, this can't be done for about 5 years.
So Steve, copy & paste this and hand it over to your successor to action in 2023 or whenever. This advice has been provided free of charge.
That competition you have created sounds impressively boring. I can't see how that would work out financially for New Zealand. There is no big TV market in there in terms of rugby.
You can't really have a five Nations competition. You can't play everyone twice so you have to play everyone once. South Africa could easily win that this year if they played us in Ellis Park.
I prefer the 6N format, where you play only once, and alternate home/away, and obviously play more teams overall. Each year the home/away draw changes, as well as the sequencing of the two "easier" games (Scotland and Italy) which mixes it up nicely so you don't get the same shit year in year out.
Adding more teams to the TRC achieves this. Personally I find playing Oz 3x per year and SA twice boring as batshit. Those years where we played Oz 4x (2009 and 2010 I think?) were extra tedious.
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@Rapido said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
@hydro11 said in Should Japan join the Rugby Championship?:
You can't really have a five Nations competition. You can't play everyone twice so you have to play everyone once. South Africa could easily win that this year if they played us in Ellis Park.
What does this mean? I'm not following you.
If you have a five nations and play everyone twice, that is eight games which is too many. So you play everyone once which means the draw is more of a lottery.
