17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup
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I'd be happy for Frank Halai to switch back to Tonga, because he is properly Tongan.
I can understand why these players would be advocating for a blanket change rather than having to go through the loophole, because only 10% of the fuckers who 'indicated an interest in switching" last time actually were prepared to front up and sacrifice some lucre while they spent a few months squeezing through that loophole. The loophole was too small once money was considered.
Personally, I quite like that there is a bit of a barrier to switch, that players have to make a bit of a sacrifice to 'follow their dreams". Forego some pay, risk an injury etc.
Maybe Piutau will be rich enough in 18 months time to do this, being the highest paid player in the world.
I don't rate their chances of getting through a change. People on forums will tease the celtic nations that "it was changed back in 2000 because the PIs were beating the lower ranked T1 teams". But rugby is growing, why would Georgia, Romania, Canada, USA etc want that rule changed?
If the PIs sort out their governance they'll get more votes at IRB council and might have a chance of advancing their wishes.
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@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
It would be a massive coup for Tonga considering he is Samoan....
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Agree with much that has already been posted. I think the arguments that have emerged since Charles Piutau's wish to play for Tonga was published, have centred around the question of whether World Rugby should allow the same kind of eligibility rules as league (allowing easy country hopping), i.e. an eligibility rule change (instead of only the 7s loophole).
What would also annoy me - if the rules were changed to allow players to hop countries - is that not only former ABs who were born in Fiji, Tonga or Samoa and lived there during at least their childhood years would be able to play for those countries, but also players of Island heritage, who have never lived there. To me, commitment to a certain cultural heritage is not the same as commitment to a country (i.e. national heritage).
Basically, this is the same thing that annoys me about uncapped players becoming immediately eligible for a country under the (grand)parent rule!I've also seen the argument that having these former ABs in the PI squads would help develop the game in the PI nations. How exactly? Because they would attract more sponsors and the money would go to development programmes? Isn't WR already pouring money into those programmes? And what if that money disappears in the pockets of administrators?
If these players want to help develop rugby in the PI nations, then they can take up coaching in the Islands after retirement as a player!In the unrelated discussion of revenue sharing, I read the opinion of one former Samoan player about how important playing for Samoa is for local players. It gives them the opportunity to showcase their talent and skill on the international stage in the hope of scoring a club contract overseas and become a well-paid professional player. How is that going to happen if former internationals of other countries are going to take those spots in the national squad?
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@rapido said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
Nonu's name has been mentioned by who though?
Mentioned by The New Zealand Herald, TVNZ, Stuff, and the UK Express (and maybe some I missed.).
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@raznomore said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
It would be a massive coup for Tonga considering he is Samoan....
That's where I was mistaken. I thought he was a New Zealander.
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He represented New Zealand in an All Black uniform. If he'll be allowed to represent Samoa, what's to stop him from representing Japan?
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I am a New Zealander first and foremost but I am also Samoan. I have a problem with people switching allegiances at the drop of a hat like Fafita, Fusitua and Taumalolo did. Tonie Carroll was the worst for me as he didn't go an play for a minnow, he switched from the Kiwis to Australia.
But this is something different and I guess, as I mentioned in another thread, the older I get the more of an intrinsic pull I feel to my Island background. But I think this is different in that the players we are talking about are already lost to NZ. Not all are cast offs, Nonu could probably still walk into the ABs midfield at 36 and Piutau still has a lot to offer at his young age. But many of these players who could switch allegiances are over the hill, out of the picture and out of the set up. If there is a minimum stand down period of 3 years I think let them go. Let them represent a minnow. If the world cup is more hotly contested because of stronger PI teams the greater the spectacle it will be.
Where I have an issue is the potential for a player to switch from Ab's to England or Australia.
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@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
He represented New Zealand in an All Black uniform. If he'll be allowed to represent Samoa, what's to stop him from representing Japan?
@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
He represented New Zealand in an All Black uniform. If he'll be allowed to represent Samoa, what's to stop him from representing Japan?
Does he have something that ties him to Japan?
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@raznomore this could be something ¥
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Piutau is a fantastic rugby player and he would have played a packet of tests for NZ. However he preferred a packet of money...and all this smacks of wanting cake and eating too...rather than a genuine, heartfelt desire to help out the country where his parents (or ?grandparents) were born. As Johnstone said, if he really had Tongan rugby at heart, he would have declared for them back in the day.
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@raznomore said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@salacious-crumb said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
I'm seeing Ma'a Nonu's name mentioned, and I'm a huge Nonu fan, but seeing him in a different national rep jersey to me stinks of mercenariness, and 'tho would be good for Tonga, I'm not convinced the optics are good for the game.
It would be a massive coup for Tonga considering he is Samoan....
This post is some of your best work Raz
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@billy-tell its that easy is it? You can't have a desire to rep either country?
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@raznomore as Johnstone alludes to in his article, Piutau made a decision about money to leave, he is now only supposedly considering Tonga because he cant play for the ABs...if there was no restriction on ABs playing offshore do you think he'd still be thinking the same?
The AB jersey is what got him into the position he finds himself today, if he had opted for his heart and went with Tonga years ago, I dont think he would be commanding the salary he is, but he still wants to play international rugby, despite using NZ to help push his value.
The 'romantic' view is they play for thier heritage, but is that helpful to the teams, maybe displacing someone for a RWC...stopping some youngsters committing if they get a shot at say the ABs thinking oh well I can always change later.
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@taniwharugby said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@raznomore this could be something ¥
Still need citizenship.
The most famous example of people misunderstanding the Olympic loophole was when former NZ7s player David Smith got called up to French 15-a-side squad a few years ago.
Smith did have French citizenship, because he had married a local, but he hadn't played any Olympic qualifying tournaments.
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@raznomore said in 17 Test AB to Play for Tonga at World Cup:
@billy-tell its that easy is it? You can't have a desire to rep either country?
It will all get interesting if Bristol say “you can play 7s to qualify for Tonga...but for the 4 months you are away, we will keep £400,000”.
We’ll see then how altruistic Charles really is.
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Someone who may have played a handful of games, it probably wouldnt bother me ,
But veterans , guys like Mils or Nonu , i wouldnt like to see , they are all black legends , for me it would kind of spoil their legacy
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We all know what would happen. Good young prospects, say Aumua, would be told to play for a PI. Then, with some international experience, we would take him back. Hell we could send some to get experience in England or, cough, take Hadleigh back from Wales if he turns out to be good. And then that would be stopped because that's far worse than the current system.
If it's denying your rights to go from Tier 1 to Tier 2, the it's denying those same rights to do the reverse.
Leave it exactly as it is. FIFA have had that rule forever, because every other rule is worse.
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The eligibility rules are a bit of a farce really aren't they. Should we go down the soccer route where it is citizenship based? I suggest that's the way to go. The problem then is where someone has more than one passport, again there it's probably a case of make a decision and that's it. It would mean likes of Fifita, Naholo, Tamanivalu, Fekitoa etc. more likely to play for country of birth than adopted country.
Some of the rules (grandparents, residency etc.) are very much relics of the amateur era.
