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Springboks v England - Test #2

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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #19

    @victor-meldrew well if he breaks his duck by upsetting the AB's later this year no one will care 😉

    Then he will be able to say he was right, he found a way to beat the ABs, now to find a way to beat all the other teams!

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
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  • mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4lifeM Online
    mariner4life
    wrote on last edited by
    #20

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    boobooB taniwharugbyT MiketheSnowM TeWaioT Billy WebbB 5 Replies Last reply
    1
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #21

    @mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    Starters not so much. But finishers us a bit wanky

    Chris B.C 1 Reply Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #22

    @mariner4life mate you should see what was on TV this morning, not supposed to call old people Elderly...oh shit, if I cant call them elderly, can I call them old people too?

    People that are not young...starters and finishers is the least of your worry bro!

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.C Offline
    Chris B.
    replied to booboo on last edited by
    #23

    @booboo said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    Starters not so much. But finishers us a bit wanky

    But not as wanky as "Happy Enders". 🙂

    taniwharugbyT 1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to Chris B. on last edited by
    #24

    @chris-b late starters?

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  • MiketheSnowM Offline
    MiketheSnowM Offline
    MiketheSnow
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #25

    @mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    In the mid 70s Liverpool FC had a player called David Fairclough.

    He made his debut in 1975 and as the season progressed, Fairclough scored seven crucial goals in just 14 appearances to land Liverpool the League championship. Nine of these appearances were as substitute.

    He was and is still affectionately known as 'Super Sub'

    Barring injury to BB, I can see DMac having this career.

    NepiaN Chris B.C 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #26

    @taniwharugby said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @victor-meldrew well if he breaks his duck by upsetting the AB's later this year no one will care 😉

    Well, I do have my suspicions about the England win in 2012. Bit of an outlier performance by the ABs which kept Lancaster in the role until RWC2015.... (insert Conspiracy Theory emoticon here...).

    But seriously, the real issue with English rugby is the lack of structure for player development. We can laugh at the fact that a player who couldn't make the AB's walks into the England test team but its a pretty damning indictment of English rugby. And there seems bugger-all discussion of that here in the UK - more about what a wonderful player Shields is.

    CatograndeC 1 Reply Last reply
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  • TeWaioT Offline
    TeWaioT Offline
    TeWaio
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #27

    @mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    100% yes!

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy Webb
    replied to cgrant on last edited by
    #28

    @cgrant said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    They should have select Curwin Bosch on the bench instead of Gelant as he can cover 10 and 15, and he is a very good goal kicker as well.

    Good point cgrant. Bosch would definitely have been better cover. And one can argue he brings as much x-factor as Gelant.

    Look, it may all work out well anyway... but it does feel like tempting fate a bit too much for my liking.

    S 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy WebbB Offline
    Billy Webb
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by
    #29

    @mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    agreed.
    It just feels all modern-age-new-theory-bullshitty to me.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • NepiaN Online
    NepiaN Online
    Nepia
    replied to MiketheSnow on last edited by
    #30

    @mikethesnow said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @mariner4life said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    I don't know why, but the terms "starters" and "finishers" really annoys me for some reason

    In the mid 70s Liverpool FC had a player called David Fairclough.

    He made his debut in 1975 and as the season progressed, Fairclough scored seven crucial goals in just 14 appearances to land Liverpool the League championship. Nine of these appearances were as substitute.

    He was and is still affectionately known as 'Super Sub'

    Barring injury to BB, I can see DMac having this career.

    BB basically had that career until his transformation in the Wales serious in 2016.

    1 Reply Last reply
    2
  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #31

    @victor-meldrew said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @taniwharugby said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @victor-meldrew well if he breaks his duck by upsetting the AB's later this year no one will care 😉

    Well, I do have my suspicions about the England win in 2012. Bit of an outlier performance by the ABs which kept Lancaster in the role until RWC2015.... (insert Conspiracy Theory emoticon here...).

    But seriously, the real issue with English rugby is the lack of structure for player development. We can laugh at the fact that a player who couldn't make the AB's walks into the England test team but its a pretty damning indictment of English rugby. And there seems bugger-all discussion of that here in the UK - more about what a wonderful player Shields is.

    I think the damning indictment in this issue is really Eddie picking Shields. We have plenty of pretty damn good 6s, Robshaw being one, Wilson (on the bench) another. We really don't need Shields but Eddie...

    Now if he had been a 7 your view would hold more water IMO.

    I would also suggest that there has been plenty of discussion around his selection. Now it's happened the media are all in love with him but previously there was a lot of argument and counter argument in the press. There is still a lot of dissatisfaction being aired on message boards, HYS etc. This is a selection that has been very divisive.

    antipodeanA 1 Reply Last reply
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  • antipodeanA Offline
    antipodeanA Offline
    antipodean
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by
    #32

    @catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.

    One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.

    CatograndeC MN5M 2 Replies Last reply
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  • CatograndeC Offline
    CatograndeC Offline
    Catogrande
    replied to antipodean on last edited by
    #33

    @antipodean said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.

    One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.

    You sort of get the feeling that he's been selected because he's a Kiwi that qualifies for England rather than yeah, we need him 'cos the alternatives are dogshit.

    KruseK 1 Reply Last reply
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  • KruseK Offline
    KruseK Offline
    Kruse
    replied to Catogrande on last edited by Kruse
    #34

    @catogrande said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @antipodean said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @catogrande from what I've read, there are four people happy with the selection. Shields, Jones and Shield's parents.

    One thing England is not short of is players with Shield's skill set.

    You sort of get the feeling that he's been selected because he's a Kiwi that qualifies for England rather than yeah, we need him 'cos the alternatives are dogshit.

    Perhaps trying to import some of that "no dickheads" culture?
    If Eddie knows that he can't keep Robshaw around too much longer, he might be trying to fill that gap (decent guy who gives his all, and can be a role model), rather than any on-field gap?
    I don't really believe that... it seems like too much of an "anti-conspiracy theory", but it sounds nice.

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
    2
  • S Offline
    S Offline
    SidBarret
    replied to Stargazer on last edited by
    #35

    @stargazer said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    The Springbok team to face England in Bloemfontein (in order of name and surname, franchise/club, caps and points):

    15 Willie le Roux (Wasps, England, 42, 55 - 11t)
    14 S’busiso Nkosi (Cell C Sharks, 1, 10 - 2t)
    13 Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks, 2, 0)
    12 Damian de Allende (DHL Stormers, 29, 15 - 3t)
    11 Aphiwe Dyantyi (Emirates Lions, 1, 5 - 1t)
    10 Handré Pollard (Vodacom Bulls, 27, 235 - 3t, 41c, 43p, 3d)
    9 Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England, 12, 5 -1t)
    8 Duane Vermeulen (Unattached, 40, 10 - 2t)
    7 Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers, 34, 20 - 4t)
    6 Siya Kolisi (DHL Stormers, 29, 20 - 4t) - captain
    5 Franco Mostert (Emirates Lions, 19, 5 - 1t)
    4 RG Snyman (Vodacom Bulls, 1, 0)
    3 Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers, 17, 0)
    2 Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers, 15, 5 - 1t)
    1 Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks, 99, 10 - 2t)

    Replacements:
    16 Akker van der Merwe (Cell C Sharks, 2, 0)
    17 Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers, 25, 5 - 1t)
    18 Thomas du Toit (Cell C Sharks, 2, 0)
    19 Jean-Luc du Preez (Cell C Sharks, 11, 10 - 2t)
    20 Sikhumbuzo Notshe (DHL Stormers, 2, 0)
    21 Ivan van Zyl (Vodacom Bulls, 2, 0)
    22 Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls, 30, 40 - 8t)
    23 Warrick Gelant (Vodacom Bulls, 3, 5 – 1t)

    Not really liking this team.

    Tighthead - Wilco Louw's performance has fallen of a cliff since the start of the season and probably needs a rest, but Malherbe looked REALLY out of shape in the one outing off the bench that he had for the stormers this season. With Oosthuizen and Nyakane out injured and Thomas Du Toit still learning his trade I am not sure what the alternative is, but it is concern.

    Three locks starting - I am not sure about PS du Toit at blindside, I really thought he would become Juan Smith's replacement there, but I was wrong and if frankly think Mostert would be better in straight swap.

    Even then I would have my reservations about the tactic as it means that at least two of the big men will have to play the 80 which isn't ideal.

    But at least it means we finish with two fresh loose forwards... well not really. Given where this team is at you would ideally have Vermeulen and Kolisi playing the full eighty so one of the bench loosies is basically relegated to being injury cover.

    No flyhalf/goalkicking cover on the bench - So Pollard is slated to play the entire game on Saturday with no injury cover. Should Pollard go down injured, Le Roux will move to flyhalf (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge) and De Klerk will take over the kicking (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge).

    But Pollard won't get injured... except his injury record is actually terrible having missed basically all of 2016 and 2017 with injury. But he is all better now... except that he was under an injury cloud this week with a bum shoulder.

    The worst case scenario is for Pollard to take a knock, but if the game is close Rassie might not want to take him off meaning we risk losing him again for the season.

    What this selection also means is that Erasmus can't really sub either De Klerk (with Van Zyl) or Le Roux (with Gelant) so the backline reserves are also only there as injury cover.

    Except for Jesse Kriel - I don't have faith in him to produce a consistent high quality performance and in no way does his inclusion justify the risk we are taking here.

    SmutsS 1 Reply Last reply
    2
  • S Offline
    S Offline
    SidBarret
    replied to Billy Webb on last edited by
    #36

    @billy-webb said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    @cgrant said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    They should have select Curwin Bosch on the bench instead of Gelant as he can cover 10 and 15, and he is a very good goal kicker as well.

    Good point cgrant. Bosch would definitely have been better cover. And one can argue he brings as much x-factor as Gelant.

    Look, it may all work out well anyway... but it does feel like tempting fate a bit too much for my liking.

    That's a hard no for me -

    1- Bosch has been varying between meh and terrible, especially in defence. And he doesn't kick for the Sharks anyway.

    If you feel you need to drop Jantjes (and I wouldn't, though I am in the minority on that count), then it makes more sense to select Robert Du Preez. He is an excellent goal kicker and covers 12 in a pinch.

    2- Gelant has been brilliant for the Bulls this (and last) season. I would say that he has been the best SA back in the super 15 this season and is superior fullback in every sense to Bosch with the possible exception of goal-kicking.

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  • SmutsS Offline
    SmutsS Offline
    Smuts
    wrote on last edited by
    #37

    I've never understood Malherbe (I've never seen him dominate a scrum and he isn't any more likely to after a second serious neck injury. Plus now he's lazy.)

    Or Kriel (defensive liability, attacking black hole.)

    Or Gelant (defensive liability, weak positional play, poor kicker - he's like a worse version of '97 era Percy.)

    I feel like I must be watching different players than the coaches, journos and public.

    And I don't understand this bench.

    How I hope they all prove me wrong tomorrow.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • SmutsS Offline
    SmutsS Offline
    Smuts
    replied to SidBarret on last edited by
    #38

    @sidbarret said in Springboks v England - Test #2:

    No flyhalf/goalkicking cover on the bench - So Pollard is slated to play the entire game on Saturday with no injury cover. Should Pollard go down injured, Le Roux will move to flyhalf (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge) and De Klerk will take over the kicking (he's never done that at pro level to my knowledge).

    De Klerk kicked for Sale. Few games I watched he kicked well.

    1 Reply Last reply
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