Build A Waterfront Stadium
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
Building a port in the firth of Thames would be insane.
Mt Maunganui?
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@booboo said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
Building a port in the firth of Thames would be insane.
Mt Maunganui?
You would basically have the 2 biggest ports in the country right beside each other. Who exactly would pay for the HUGE cost of building a port out of basically nothing. Because the Port of Tauranga would slaughter them and make it a terrible investment.
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Personally I have no issues with a working port in the CBD, but I know many do.
Of the many sites that have been examined the Firth of Thames actually makes the most sense.
Caveat the other contenders were the Manukau, Kaipara, Marsden Point and Mahurangi.
Shipping Lines like it because it is actually easier access for them and much easier than crossing a west coast bar.
The idea is to have a rail link to the existing Wiri container terminal (about 25kms from memory). It is a deeper access than all the other options (including current) except Marsden Point which is one environmental point in its favour but any development will run up against green and iwi concerns I'm sure.
The cost will be many billions but there is the current port land as an off-set.
In any scenario Akl retains its cruise ship terminals
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@booboo said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
Building a port in the firth of Thames would be insane.
Mt Maunganui?
You would basically have the 2 biggest ports in the country right beside each other. Who exactly would pay for the HUGE cost of building a port out of basically nothing. Because the Port of Tauranga would slaughter them and make it a terrible investment.
I meant expand Tauranga and redirect shipping to there, not build a competitor.
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@dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@booboo That ignores the fact that the Ports of Akl and Tga are competitors. Why would Akl gift their business to Tga?
Wasn't aware of that. Just a thought bubble that I think I may have heard elsewhere.
Who owns said ports?
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@dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
The idea is to have a rail link to the existing Wiri container terminal (about 25kms from memory). It is a deeper access than all the other options (including current) except Marsden Point which is one environmental point in its favour but any development will run up against green and iwi concerns I'm sure.
It has/does/will
Any expansion to MP is almost certainly linked to a rail line to service it.
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@dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@booboo That ignores the fact that the Ports of Akl and Tga are competitors. Why would Akl gift their business to Tga?
They will be gifting it anyway if they try and build a port in Thames....
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@booboo That ignores the fact that the Ports of Akl and Tga are competitors. Why would Akl gift their business to Tga?
They will be gifting it anyway if they try and build a port in Thames....
MP is the obvious location. Thames is an idea for the retarded.
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@baron-silas-greenback Issues with MP is getting the freight south.
The Northern Line would need squillions spent on it to bring it up to a state where it could handle the freight. There has been a lack of investment over the years plus the infrastructure can't handle the size of carriage needed to move it. So you are talking widening tunnels building new viaducts etc.
Effectively you would be building a new 130km line as opposed to a 25 km one.
Then you have the problem of moving all that freight through the Akl isthmus which will put it in conflict with Akl Transports requirements for commuter rail. Of course you could alternatively put hundreds more artics a day onto SH1 but that creates a whole lot of different issues.
MP sounds great in that there is already a deep sea port there. But its tiny and its remote. I think the analysis shows the Firth option working out cheaper.
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This post is deleted!
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@dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@booboo POA is council owned Tga is publically listed
True, but not the whole story, a lot of the shares in POT are owned by the regional council via Quayside holdings
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
@baron-silas-greenback Issues with MP is getting the freight south.
The Northern Line would need squillions spent on it to bring it up to a state where it could handle the freight. There has been a lack of investment over the years plus the infrastructure can't handle the size of carriage needed to move it. So you are talking widening tunnels building new viaducts etc.
Effectively you would be building a new 130km line as opposed to a 25 km one.
Then you have the problem of moving all that freight through the Akl isthmus which will put it in conflict with Akl Transports requirements for commuter rail. Of course you could alternatively put hundreds more artics a day onto SH1 but that creates a whole lot of different issues.
MP sounds great in that there is already a deep sea port there. But its tiny and its remote. I think the analysis shows the Firth option working out cheaper.
I think the analysis is full of shite then. Not only do you have to build a rail liks in a few directions,you have to actually build a deep water port into an estuary.... and then all the infrastructure around a port has to be created. Where would you get the marshaling, stevedoring and transport labour .. let alone the supporting industries labour.
Where is this analysis that claims Firth option working out cheaper? Should be fascinating fiction story to read at bed time.The workforce part would be the easy part in my mind (we get people into Kawerau and Tokoroa easily enough) People will move for jobs.
I don't get the estuary part of your post? Surely they wouldn't look at building and widening the estuary, it would be further north, wouldn't it?
For future proofing, to me, it would make more sense building there than at the end of a funnel which would be expanding MP. It would link into the inland port at Ruakura more easily if that also goes ahead.
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Yep Firth of Thames site is within the Akl City boundaries and relatively close to Wiri
This guy has a lot of detail for anyone interested
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Hmmm ... thought bubbling further if PoA does not have public shareholders expecting a profit, and if Council dies not have an obligation to run a port itself, there would likely be a way to sell Auckland's business to Tga in a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Already a rail line through the Kaimais ...
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@booboo POA offered to but Tga's container business and got rebuffed.
Council gets about 50 mill dividend p.a. so definitely have a shareholder expecting a dividend.
Also illustrates a massive conflict of interest when it comes to harbourside developments
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@booboo said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:
Hmmm ... thought bubbling further if PoA does not have public shareholders expecting a profit, and if Council dies not have an obligation to run a port itself, there would likely be a way to sell Auckland's business to Tga in a mutually beneficial arrangement.
Already a rail line through the Kaimais ...
That would still require Tauranga to probably almost double their capacity. Assuming current quays run near capacity, as both operations are nose to nose for biggest nz port
NOt sure if PoT have the space to expand?
I think the 'no new port in Firth' viewpoint is that Marsaden Point and Tauranga between them expand to absorb Auckland's capacity.
