Dan Bailey

Kirwan

So just to be clear, you don't think the following are sports either?
 
Running
Swimming
Rowing
Weightlifting
Triathalons
Ironmans
Decathlons
 
All use the same sort of scoring system that Crossfit uses.

Hooroo

Those Olympic events are, yes. Crossfit isn't. Unless you can all any type of movement with some arbitrary scoring attached a sport. In that case, everything is a sport as I just timed how long the Photocopier took to pront something. If it does it quicker tomrrow, I'll score it 3 points.A new sport born!

Kirwan

Ironman is not an Olympic sport.
 
The definition of a sport is;
 
"an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment"
 
That's exactly what the Crossfit Games are. I think you are confusing the training part (what I do at the gym) with the sport part. I wouldn't call the weekly training I do a sport, that's gaining fitness and working on skills for fun, and in my case to compete in things like the Open. Better athletes get onto the Regionals and to the actual Games.
 
Crossfit is two different things, a way to workout AND there is a sport-afied version.
 
Looks like a sport to me;

Hooroo

As I said, anything then is a sport, so long as you move.

Hooroo

I would call it a Fad rather than a sport. Like Tai Bo and Jazzercise

Kirwan

Oh, you are just trolling. How very WS90210 of you.
 
I've made my case, you disagree with me (and the definition of sport). Whatever.

JK

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="468996" data-time="1421882553">
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I would call it a Fad rather than a sport. Like Tai Bo and Jazzercise
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Sorry had to like this as LOL'd so hard.

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="468997" data-time="1421882646">
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Oh, you are just trolling. How very WS90210 of you.
 
I've made my case, you disagree with me (and the definition of sport). Whatever.
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Not trolling, just clarifying what I think of it. I would bet that within ten years you'll struggle to attend crossfit in the same way you'd be hard pressed to find a decent jazzercise class. Hence the Fad comment

NTA

Driver: take me around in circles. And step on it, I'm in a hurry.

Kirwan

Who knows what will be popular in ten years time?
 
So far Crossfit has been going 15 years, and still seems to be in a strong growth mode. Look at the Open numbers;
 
<div>"Each year, participation in the Open grows exponentially. In 2011, about 26,000 people signed up for the first-ever Open. The next year, 69,370 people signed up. In 2013, there were 138,619 participants, and this year registration closed with 209,585 people.</div>
<div>The growth tracks nicely with the number of CrossFit affiliates around the world. This averages to about 23 Open participants per affiliate each year. Of course many affiliates have many more participants than that. This year, CrossFit NYC has the most Open participants of any affiliate: 676 of their approximately 2,000 members registered for the Open this year."</div>
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<div>It will be interesting to see the numbers later next month. They seem to be tracking with the number of gyms opening, just looking at the new affiliates in NZ since I started in 2011 is pretty impressive.</div>
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<div>With the support from ESPN and Reebok, their future looks pretty healthy. Also, these gyms are just businesses that license IP from Crossfit. People are always looking for places to workout, so no reason for them to go anywhere as they have good equipment and a fun environment to exercise. So even if there is a backlash against Crossfit, it's just a gym at the end of the day.</div>
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<div>And just to be argumentative, I looked into the figures for Jazzercize and that's still going strong too! Surprised me.</div>

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="468972" data-time="1421875516">Is weightlifting a sport? Triathlons? Gymnastics? Running or Rowing? Crossfit is just a mix of those disciplines, just like a decathalon.</blockquote>Yes*, sort of, yes*, yes, yes. Triathlon is at the elite level (at any distance short of stupid, i.e. Ironman) for people who aren't good at cycling, running or swimming. At Ironman it's just for sadists. The rest you have to be the best at something specific. Anyone who thinks weightlifting isn't hasn't done a C&J or snatch. Because this is more impressive:

* - Generally I am dismissive of events that require subjective (no matter how qualified) analysis for scoring when it comes to technique. But generally speaking you either lift the weight over your head and immediately lock out or you don't. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="469006" data-time="1421886080">With the support from ESPN and Reebok, their future looks pretty healthy. Also, these gyms are just businesses that license IP from Crossfit. People are always looking for places to workout, so no reason for them to go anywhere as they have good equipment and a fun environment to exercise. So even if there is a backlash against Crossfit, it's just a gym at the end of the day.</blockquote>I remember when basketball was going to be the next big thing and player numbers were exploding - easy to do from a small base... From my perspective anything that keeps people motivated to exercise is a good thing. I just laugh when people are drinking from the kool aid

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="469010" data-time="1421889849">
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* - Generally I am dismissive of events that require subjective (no matter how qualified) analysis for scoring when it comes to technique. But generally speaking you either lift the weight over your head and immediately lock out or you don't. 

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I agree generally - running race = start here, finish there, quickest one wins. High jump = get over that thing. Highest one wins. Long jump same for distance, don't step over the board. WALKING - seriously what a fucked "sport". If they got robots to judge the rules, no prick would finish.
 
I was watching X-fit games when I still had FoxSports, and they had dudes counting reps for each thing and "no-repping" people occasionally. I know it should be pretty obvious with things like a squat puts hips below knees or something, but that too can be subjective.

Kirwan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="469015" data-time="1421891010">
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I agree generally - running race = start here, finish there, quickest one wins. High jump = get over that thing. Highest one wins. Long jump same for distance, don't step over the board. WALKING - seriously what a fucked "sport". If they got robots to judge the rules, no prick would finish.
 
I was watching X-fit games when I still had FoxSports, and they had dudes counting reps for each thing and "no-repping" people occasionally. I know it should be pretty obvious with things like a squat puts hips below knees or something, but that too can be subjective.
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Subjective like LBWs in cricket you mean? Anything with a judge is not a sport then? Lets rule out Cricket, baseball, and figure skating then :)

Kirwan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="469010" data-time="1421889849">
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Yes*, sort of, yes*, yes, yes. 
Triathlon is at the elite level (at any distance short of stupid, i.e. Ironman) for people who aren't good at cycling, running or swimming. At Ironman it's just for sadists. The rest you have to be the best at something specific. Anyone who thinks weightlifting isn't hasn't done a C&J or snatch. Because this is more impressive:

- Generally I am dismissive of events that require subjective (no matter how qualified) analysis for scoring when it comes to technique. But generally speaking you either lift the weight over your head and immediately lock out or you don't. 
 I remember when basketball was going to be the next big thing and player numbers were exploding - easy to do from a small base... 
 From my perspective anything that keeps people motivated to exercise is a good thing. I just laugh when people are drinking from the kool aid
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 </blockquote>
 
 I'm not drinking from the Kool Aid, I'm just amused at the narrow definition of sport.

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="469015" data-time="1421891010">I agree generally - running race = start here, finish there, quickest one wins. High jump = get over that thing. Highest one wins. Long jump same for distance, don't step over the board. WALKING - seriously what a fucked "sport". If they got robots to judge the rules, no prick would finish.</blockquote> Exactly. <blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="469017" data-time="1421893264">Subjective like LBWs in cricket you mean? Anything with a judge is not a sport then? Lets rule out Cricket, baseball, and figure skating then :)</blockquote> To me all three are past times. Cricket and baseball are ways to waste days drinking. Seems almost ungentlemanly to put in an effort. Some are better at it than others, but I'd classify them towards the pub end of sporting endeavour (darts and snooker, etc.)

taniwharugby

hhmm, ruck rulings could be considered subjective....

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kirwan" data-cid="469017" data-time="1421893264">
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Subjective like LBWs in cricket you mean? 
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That's a good way of looking at the subjectivity of sports we tend to take for granted. Let me expand a little on what I mean, which is mostly due to my familiarity with cricket over CrossFit.
 
I know the sort of shit cricket umpires go through to become qualified enough for the level at which they adjudicate. Its a sport that has been around for a long time, so it has developed and implemented changes to Laws and Regulations as it sees fit. For the guys at the top levels, an approved review system is in place (where India aren't concerned) that allows them to have any clangers overturned.
 
Another key factor is that you have the same pair of umpires adjudicating the whole game, so they need to hold their judgement fairly consistently.
 
 
The judges at the X-Fit games just looked like they were just local gym (box?) owners or something. I have no idea who they are, what their qualifications* are, or what governing board they report to. I assume there is a process of selecting them for the top notch competitions.
 
And you have one judge per athlete by the looks of things. And what if the two of you don't happen to get on?
 
The things like rope climb, where you have to tap the top of the frame or whatever - pretty straightforward. Things like pull ups should be pretty straightforward too, assuming the head or shoulders need to reach a certain level. Squats must be as well, when you need to get your hips parallel with your knees.
 
But to me there is still a margin of error, and no review system that could suit the immediacy of the situation.
 
If you get no-repped, you have to do it again. You come second by a couple of metres across the line, and stiff shit.
 
OK, maybe its your fault for leaving any doubt whatsoever about that rep being completed. But can you get a video replay showing it was a proper rep? Does it change the result? If the guy judging you happened to be mates with the eventual winner, is there going to be controversy?
 
 
From what I've seen, it looks like everyone is about fair play and are the kind of self-motivated exercise junkies who don't want to cut corners for the sake of winning. The whole point about CrossFit is competing against yourself on the clock, right?
 
But popularity and entertainment mean money, and ego, and eventually the stakes rise higher at the top levels.
 
And once you're not competing against yourself on the clock, and the difference between one no-rep can mean part of your income, you're going to have people start to push it.
 
 
 
 
* I assume there are qualifications, though the qualification process for XFit instructions has been notably and very publicly scorned.

Kirwan

Good post. 
Judges go through qualifications and get practical experience. There are iffy judges at the lower levels, say at the Open, so to combat that all submissions have to be videoed. 
Top results (and many others, but not all) are reviewed by online judges, and discrepancies in the prescribed movements are noted. Reps can be taken away, and you can be disqualified (has been a few noteworthy DQs, and to rub salt in the wound they release the videos). 
I've done the 1st level coaches course, and it's not too difficult - especially if you have xFit experience and know the movements. I was going to volunteer in the Auckland event CFAK puts on, but buying a house got in the way. 
There are more advanced courses, and then you need to get experience. You get a better standard at the regional level, still possible to get a shitty judge but they are reviewed in real time and you can see the odd correction on the fly. 
If you don't get on with a judge and argue with them, you can get kicked out of the comp (they put a video up of a guy who yelled at his judge and was generally a dick, and they humiliated him and banned him from future events) 
Once you get to the games the judging is not an issue, and the athletes know what they have to do. The judges here are very experienced and well drilled. You get the odd WTF moment, but it's usually from the athletes. A notable one was Maddox and rope climbs, he just couldn't get that he had to lower himself under control, and couldn't let go of the rope until he was below the blue line. Three no reps, that he had to re climb, event over for him. 
So there's no subjective judging, I guess the challenge is ensuring the movement standards are met when the athletes are moving fast - but that's an issue in any sport with a judge. 
So basically the main issues with judging are at the Open level, but if you cheat to get to regionals you are going to look pretty foolish because there is nowhere to hide. 
Am sure I've missed stuff. I know that in 2014 they started putting chips on the athletes to improve the precision, so as it get bigger it will improve. 
I'll post some example movement standards so you see what the judges are looking for, it's all very clear.

Kirwan

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Kirwan

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The Silver Fern

Dan Bailey