Should the Crusaders change their name?
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.But if those it affects (Cultures and Crusaders) are happy with the change, then does it matter?
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@canefan From my personal experience this is a dangerous argument because it is predicated upon the assumption that they haven't spend 22 years complaining and being ignored - as some reports say they have been about security.
I've posted upon this before so apologies but back in the 70's one of the things the Uni of Akl Engineering School used to do during Orientation and Capping Week was dress in grass skirts with naked torsos. They'd paint their chests and faces with swear words and basically spend the week being disruptive - running through the quad pulling women's dresses up in and out of lecture theatres making monkey noises doing "comic" hakas etc . Behaviour that was pretty much accepted as boys having fun but nowadays quite rightly would be treated as seriously out of line.
So in 1979 a bunch of Maori in cars hit the Uni and pile through the Engineering campus giving a few guys a bit of a hiding.
Cue outrage by the Herald and the majority of student body at this thuggish behaviour.
The President of AUSA was quoted by Herald saying as an individual while I abhore violence I can understand Maori frustration at this behaviour.
By this stage I had been at Uni 3 years and had never seen the student body engaged. What ho. Cue three days of non-stop debate in the quad - 99% of which was directed at the AUSA President for daring to criticise the Engineering Students who were just letting off steam and having some harmless fun. One of the common threads was pretty much what you said - they've had all this time to complain so why the biffo.
It turned out (documented proof was provided) that the Maori University Club had been protesting the Engineering students "likeable larrikinism" for over 40 years!!! So my point is we can't assume that no one has been protesting the use of the Crusaders name just because they've had 22 years to do so.
Final result was there was a vote by around 5,000 - 150 roundly condemning the actions of the Student Association President All the Engineering Students got was sympathy. I left at the end of that year but they carried on with their behaviour.
That episode more than any other illustrated for me how deeply entrenched racism was in NZ in the 70's. I'd already decided to head overseas at the end of the year and was bloody happy to do so.
As I said earlier in this thread I was shocked to discover when I returned 13 years later that not a lot had changed. I do think the situation has improved dramatically since then but what I'm learning is a sizeable number of non-whites don't agree.
Personally I don't favour changing the name because it is a win for the asshole but I think a debate at some stage after the season is over cannot hurt.
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
I’m a Crusaders fan, so some might think I’m blinkered in my view of this. But for me this smacks of looking for something that simply is not there.
I get that sometimes certain events can lead to a situation where it is the “right time to have that debate”, but there needs to be a genuine issue to debate rather than some convenient headline. The name of a team that has been well known for more than two decades in my view does not remotely fit that.
On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate jug.
On the other hand I'm a Crusaders fan too, and it doesn’t Jie bother me if we change the name or not.
I support the team because it’s where I’m from and branding ddoesn’t change that stance.The right approach (in my opinion) is to hold discussions with the Muslim community and make a considered decisions based on that feedback.
If they change the name I’ll still keep supporting them, but I’m yet to see any reason why this even needs to be debated other than a few fringe headlines.
Is there genuine concern in the community about this? And has there been concern over this for some time?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
I’m a Crusaders fan, so some might think I’m blinkered in my view of this. But for me this smacks of looking for something that simply is not there.
I get that sometimes certain events can lead to a situation where it is the “right time to have that debate”, but there needs to be a genuine issue to debate rather than some convenient headline. The name of a team that has been well known for more than two decades in my view does not remotely fit that.
On the other hand the firearms debate is/will be had and the events in Christchurch have expedited that debate jug.
On the other hand I'm a Crusaders fan too, and it doesn’t Jie bother me if we change the name or not.
I support the team because it’s where I’m from and branding ddoesn’t change that stance.The right approach (in my opinion) is to hold discussions with the Muslim community and make a considered decisions based on that feedback.
If they change the name I’ll still keep supporting them, but I’m yet to see any reason why this even needs to be debated other than a few fringe headlines.
Is there genuine concern in the community about this? And has there been concern over this for some time?
I agree with you... more than anything it amuses me that it’s such a big deal for so many on here.
It’s a minor issue for me, so I don’t care if we keep the name or lose it. If it makes a few people happy to change it then go ahead.
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@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC similar thoughts if ( when) a debate about changing the All Blacks name?
Just a musing question mate. Culture often runs on precedents
Any change should be driven by the franchise. I am sure the muslim community would not want the heat that comes with externally demanding change
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@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC similar thoughts if ( when) a debate about changing the All Blacks name?
Just a musing question mate. Culture often runs on precedents
Bit of tangent? But yes my point stands, I’ll support the New Zealand rugby team no matter what they are called.
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Jeez ......Stop trying to assign a position to me based on one word in my original post.
If you want an argument, then my position is as follows: I don't care if the name changes, the team and where it comes from is what is important. If the Crusaders change their name to appease even a small part of the local community then so be it.
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@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@dogmeat said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
as a by the by - they've already changed their name once
From Canterbury Crusaders? They forgot to tell the Aussies!
Nah, let them continue to think the team hails from the Sydney suburbs
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@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Jeez ......Stop trying to assign a position to me based on one word in my original post.
If you want an argument, then my position is as follows: I don't care if the name changes, the team and where it comes from is what is important. If the Crusaders change their name to appease even a small part of the local community then so be it.
Right from the start the entire name change discussion has triggered people who have no real stake in the franchise. Someone mentioned it got kicked off by a twitter post? I bet it wasn't from anyone connected with the team or the mosques. I think Sammy's position is very even. Whatever they name the franchise they will still be your team
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@dogmeat said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@canefan they couldn't be so foolish. The Crusaders win.
They probably worked it out because the unis are red and black, not blue and white. But SBW playing for them a couple of years might have created confusion
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@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
Thats my point....... anyone can find anything offensive.
This will be the thin end of a wedge that will lead to very bad results.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Hooroo said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@Siam said in Should the Crusaders change their name?:
@SammyC wouldn't the right decision be to have discussions with the whole community including muslims?
This is a members and community issue with inputs from other groups within the community as I see it
Not really, I don't see how anyone in my position can feel that strongly about it.
It's just a brand name to me, I'd support the team and continue to buy my season ticket no matter whats it's called because I'm from Christchurch. If it's offensive to the Muslim community in general then change it, the team name isn't something worth fighting about.
Offensive? That is the most inane reason to change anything. I am offended by your posts, should you stop posting?
Claiming something is offensive is just the lame brains attempt at making someone else change position on a topic.Fine, change offensive to inappropriate if it’s that big a deal.
I don’t know why it’s such a big issue for guys like you? My point is that it doesn’t matter what the team is called, as long as we wear red and black and ply in Christchurch.
Inappropriate? Nope just as inane.
As for it being a big issue?... shouldn't that be directed at the people wanting a change?
I am just amazed at the lame reasons for doing so.Inane to you maybe but so what if others think of it inappropriate? Should we all have the same train of thought around everything?
Thats my point....... anyone can find anything offensive.
This will be the thin end of a wedge that will lead to very bad results.
For who? I think if, for the most, people are happy with change, then change. If it is a few that are unhappy with this, then too bad.