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@Hooroo fair enough.
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@Paekakboyz said in The Folau Factor:
@Siam I'd be interested to know what sort of guy he was in the team environment (Tahs and for Oz). Can't recall him ever being described as a prima donna, but also haven't heard much about him being a leader within the squad.
I can recall Auckland and Blues teams having a the occasional team huddle prayer led by Kevin Mealamu (only one I can recall, quite likely others have too). Can recall the odd comment for how that went/felt for the guys that weren't religious. But from memory it was all good and very much each to their own. I guess that, alongside other devout (legends) like MJ, shows how rugby and religion has overlapped in NZ.
I heard one of the main reasons counting against Eroni Clarke being selected back in the day was that he was very evangelical.
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@Machpants said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel yeah but our only Muslim rugby player is coming out and saying 'as long as your good to others, I like you' not 'burn in hell faggot' So bringing up other religions and anti Christian stuff not entirely relevant. If SBW posts about the "Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent", then he'd lose his job too. Btw that's the only mention of homosexually being forbidden in the Qur'an, all the fundamentalist stuff from the Muslim world is based on their culture more than scripture. Your also need four eye witnesses before you could be punished, tricky one that!
Reckon you could start in the west country, surely one of those eleven fingered buggers has at least three eyes?
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Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
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@Machpants said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel yeah but our only Muslim rugby player is coming out and saying 'as long as your good to others, I like you' not 'burn in hell faggot' So bringing up other religions and anti Christian stuff not entirely relevant. If SBW posts about the "Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent", then he'd lose his job too. Btw that's the only mention of homosexually being forbidden in the Qur'an, all the fundamentalist stuff from the Muslim world is based on their culture more than scripture. Your also need four eye witnesses before you could be punished, tricky one that!
Ofa just converted to Islam, so we have two Muslim All Blacks now.
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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
He’s correct. Free speech doesn’t mean only hearing speech you agree with. But more & more that is becoming heresy.
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Yeah, it does shit me somewhat that the constant shouty name calling - racist, nazi, homophobe etc, just drowning out constructive debate is a blight on our times. That little piston wristed gibbon on the Guardian, Owen something. He’s a prime example.
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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Yeah, it does shit me somewhat that the constant shouty name calling - racist, nazi, homophobe etc, just drowning out constructive debate is a blight on our times. That little piston wristed gibbon on the Guardian, Owen something. He’s a prime example.
Yep, fark that guys right to free speech
offtopic a bit, but media has a lot to answer for. The quality of their journalism has plummeted (due mainly to advertising revenue cratering). Someone asked yesterday where all the good rugby journalists were in NZ? The answer is - doing something else. Good ones are worth $$$, and no one is prepared to pay for that. So now you get people banging out multiple articles a day, because 10 shitty articles get more clicks than 2 thoughtful ones. It's a concern when enthusiasts with fulltime jobs often know more than people paid to cover rugby in NZ.
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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
See I think I missed the bit where he said he's going to paradise and he's not a sinner in the list? Or did I?
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
I think you are looking at two issues. Firstly Folau’s tweeted beliefs. They’re antediluvian but A) does it really matter if you don’t believe in his sky fairy and free speech and all that. Secondly, consequences of above ie does he deserve getting the elbow? I think he’s a dick on two counts, his views and his kicking Aussie Rugby in the balls but to me he can get sacked for the second but not the first. Lawes’ Tweeted defence of Vunipola echoes my views on this.
Fuck. Those two s were meant to be B in brackets.
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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
antediluvian
well, I just learned the proper definition of a new word:
antediluvian
/ˌantɪdɪˈluːvɪən/
adjective
of or belonging to the time before the biblical Flood.
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
synonyms: before the flood, prehistoric, primeval, primordial, primal, earliest, ancient, early; rareprimigenial
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
HUMOROUS
ridiculously old-fashioned.
"they maintain antediluvian sex-role stereotypes"
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned, ancient, antiquated, archaic, antique, superannuated, anachronistic, outworn, behind the times, primitive, medieval, quaint, old-fangled, obsolescent, obsolete, prehistoric; More -
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
antediluvian
well, I just learned the proper definition of a new word:
antediluvian
/ˌantɪdɪˈluːvɪən/
adjective
of or belonging to the time before the biblical Flood.
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
synonyms: before the flood, prehistoric, primeval, primordial, primal, earliest, ancient, early; rareprimigenial
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
HUMOROUS
ridiculously old-fashioned.
"they maintain antediluvian sex-role stereotypes"
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned, ancient, antiquated, archaic, antique, superannuated, anachronistic, outworn, behind the times, primitive, medieval, quaint, old-fangled, obsolescent, obsolete, prehistoric; MoreEvery day’s a school day 😁
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
antediluvian
well, I just learned the proper definition of a new word:
antediluvian
/ˌantɪdɪˈluːvɪən/
adjective
of or belonging to the time before the biblical Flood.
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
synonyms: before the flood, prehistoric, primeval, primordial, primal, earliest, ancient, early; rareprimigenial
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
HUMOROUS
ridiculously old-fashioned.
"they maintain antediluvian sex-role stereotypes"
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned, ancient, antiquated, archaic, antique, superannuated, anachronistic, outworn, behind the times, primitive, medieval, quaint, old-fangled, obsolescent, obsolete, prehistoric; More -
What are the chances Nike pays him a couple million a year?
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
He has every right to hold whatever view he wants.
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
Yeah, nah. That’s not even logical
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
If they don't express a view, then how do you know they hold it?
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@taniwharugby said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
If they don't express a view, then how do you know they hold it?
Schrodinger's viewpoint.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions