2019 under 20's
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
South Africans on twitter are complaining that Finau wasn't carded here.
Based on how the tournament has been reffed, I was surprised it wasn't a yellow but I don't think he actually connected with the head, it just glanced off his upper shoulder and looked bad because of the whiplash.
Playing with fire hitting anywhere near the upper shoulder these days.
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@mofitzy_ one of those ones where if he was YC'd he should have zero to complain about (probably should have been though), but also one where you need to look at it in the context of player height and he is dropping too...sometimes it isnt easy for the tackler to adjust his height line once committed.
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For who missed the game and still want to watch it, this is the link to the full match video: https://www.sparksport.co.nz/match/9516b311-7d8b-4dae-92e8-5f86a8588696?fbclid=IwAR30EXFzQ9LuYiFiN1S5E6vqXDtwnfYu_9GVZiFhFVMv9kxZgMy6Sf9EBps
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Coach would surely go after 3 years anyway. Win, lose or draw.
In fact it's a waste to waste 3 years of tournament experience on the same guy. Should be a pathway for coaches just (currently) below SR level.
Sign of the times maybe? No coaches left in the country.
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@barbarian IMO def Yellow.
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@barbarian said in 2019 under 20's:
Thoughts on the Red Card in the Aus/Eng game? First up in this highlight package below, happened in the 3rd minute...
If this is the way the game is being refereed now, the World Cup could be an absolute debacle.
I think it's a red card. It's very similar to the shoulder charge (against his opponent's throat) for which Fifita was red carded in the Sharks v Hurricanes game.
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But it's not a shoulder charge. Watching it in real time, it's clearly a tackle. He wraps both his arms around the player.
It's a little bit upright, sure, but it's fundamentally a rugby play. If that's now a red card, then you could give 2-3 a game I reckon.
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@barbarian said in 2019 under 20's:
Thoughts on the Red Card in the Aus/Eng game? First up in this highlight package below, happened in the 3rd minute...
If this is the way the game is being refereed now, the World Cup could be an absolute debacle.
Absolutely ridiculous to consider that a red card. What needs to be taken into account is the height with which someone approaches contact - if they're going to run into contact bending down then that should mitigate what would otherwise be a perfectly fine front on tackle.
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Clearly deserving of a penalty and probably a card - not the red one though.
WR need to have a look at themselves and have a think about what they want rugby to be as a spectator sport going forward. If they’re going to direct their refs to go card crazy then they probably need to change red card to - out of the game and then can be replaced by another player after 10 mins.
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@barbarian Yeah, you're right, it's a high tackle because his arm is (just) in front of his body when the contact is made.
However, the high contact was with the tackler's shoulder and there was direct contact with the head/neck area. In that case the ref then has to determine the degree of danger. If he considers that there is a high degree of danger, it's always going to be a red card, unless there are mitigating factors. In this case, the ref says there's a high degree of danger and no mitigating factors.
To determine the degree of danger, the ref has to look at factors like those in this picture (this is from the video about the new high-tackle sanction framework).
At least two factors are present: the tackler is attempting a dominant tackle and he completes the tackle. It's debatable whether he swings his shoulder/arm forward; I'm not so sure he does. But there are at least two factors to conclude there's a high degree of danger (it's not clear to me how many of those factors need to be present to establish a high degree of danger; is one enough? need there be more? how many more?)
Possible mitiagting factors are:
I agree with the ref there were no mitigating factors.
We'll see whether the judiciary agrees with the ref's assessment of the degree of danger (that's the only thing that's debatable IMO).
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@Nepia said in 2019 under 20's:
Clearly deserving of a penalty and probably a card - not the red one though.
WR need to have a look at themselves and have a think about what they want rugby to be as a spectator sport going forward. If they’re going to direct their refs to go card crazy then they probably need to change red card to - out of the game and then can be replaced by another player after 10 mins.
I think this is a direct result of that new high- tackle sanction framework that they announced two weeks ago. When I posted the info on that framework in the "Law trials" thread, I already said that I expected more cards to be handed out. I'm all for player safety, but all those cards are ruining the game.
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My problem then is with the framework more than it is the referee and the individual decision.
Because to me a red card should be reserved for play that is deliberately cynical and dangerous. IMO if a player is making a 'rugby play' that goes slightly wrong, it shouldn't result in a red card.
This tackle wasn't a swinging arm, or a shoulder charge, or a spear tackle. It was a tall bloke attempting a tackle against a player who had dropped his body height. He inadvertantly made contact with the head in making the tackle.
A penalty? Yes. A yellow? I wouldn't love it but I could accept it.
But for that play to result in a red card in the 3rd minute of the game is not what I want the game to become.
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
I agree with the ref there were no mitigating factors.
To me, the change in height is a mitigating factor. The defender braced and dropped with the tackler - but front on, there's not many places for the shoulder to go unless you completely pull out of the tackle.
For me, that's a penalty + yellow card for incidental contact. If not, we're going to see a whole lot of red cards I think; just drop into front on tackles and leave the tackler no where to go
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