-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
We all live in a society that has norms and values, in theory our laws will be influenced by these. As norms and values change the laws will eventually follow. Many laws have reflected religious sins such as adultery and homosexuality. In many countries people are still arrested and even killed for these "sins".
Thankfully in western cultures views have changed dramatically, don't forget homosexuality in Tasmania was still illegal as late as 1997. Now a short 22 years later gay people can marry and have as much sex as they like.
I believe what Folau stands for is an outdated cultural view that is no longer accepted. I think the outrage is not because he is a Christian but because as a society we no longer tolerate any hateful or discriminatory speech(even if its in the bible) towards homosexuals.
I believe slavery and segregation of blacks was accepted by the church and believers found passages in the bible to support this. Once society no longer tolerated slavery people eventually stopped spreading these views even though it was once supported by the church.
I believe homosexuality is heading down the same path, that is even though it maybe in the bible as a sin, society will not tolerate any discrimination against homosexuals. This is probably the reason nearly every other christian footy player isn't posting "gays go to hell" on their social media posts.
Last night I drank, fornicated, gambled
Now that is a good night!!
-
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
@Siam @Rembrandt Anecdotal.
It's called 'lived' and @Baron-Silas-Greenback says it can't be used.
Oh you can use it. It makes it clear who cannot accept that their evidence is just anecdotal and must use a different phrase. Lived experience lol
-
@booboo said in The Folau Factor:
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
gay people can marry and have as much sex as they like.
So gay people do marriage differently?
Based on that evidence fool ow is dead wrong. Married gay couples are going to heaven more than the straight ones!
-
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Gee I think bringing slavery into it is a bit much. It should also be mentioned that religious doctrine played a part in ending slavery as well.
I think it is a very good example to use, slavery was very much a part of early religion and I believe early religious text covers slaves as property and the ability to beat them until near death etc. It wasn't until society started changing that Religion changed with it. The same has happened with woman rights.
I cannot recall seeing Folau posting these versus, would it be ok if he posted all woman should obey their husbands in the name of the lord?
"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Saviour."
Ephesians 5: 22-23
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man; rather, she is to remain silent."
1 Timothy 2: 11-12Society no longer tolerates domestic violence or mens dominance over woman and as such the churches views have changed.
Whilst his words have no impact on you it does on many religious people. Many men still beat their wives because they believe the bible says they can. If Folau continues his promotion of homosexuality as a sin some Christians will discriminate and hate against gays because it is a sin in the bible. This is how discrimination spreads. Yes it was just a tweet but words are often how wars start and I for one do not believe he should be sprouting this outdated and antiquated belief.
Your argument is well meaning but shallow. Unfortunately it’s pretty standard for those of us who want to force a secular mindset onto religious minds.
The claim that churches’ views have changed is way too general. The Church of England has changed its views, well its official views, on many things. But internally it is being ripped apart by divisions, with many dioceses outside Europe on the brink of leaving over the very issue of equality for women. And that is probably the most liberal Christian church on the planet. Many of the fundamentalist churches consider the mainstream churches to be heretical in their watered down and selective interpretations of the Bible. Don’t think for a moment that there is a consensual acceptance amongst Christians on that matter or any other.
You’re also conflating things discussed in the Bible with things that are sins. There is certainly guidance in the Bible (as there is too in the Koran and the Torah) about matters such as you mention, and modern society can’t agree with it. But the Bible doesn’t venture an opinion on slavery or dominance over women being sins. It specifically does though on the categories mentioned by Folau’s tweet. He, and you don’t seem to get this, doesn’t say that he thinks those people are bad, he says that God has said categorically that they will go to Hell.
As with most of this stuff, the origin is the Catholic Church., which was in many respects the original version of Christianity from which all the others have sprung. They enumerated the mortal sins, and their basis in “gravity” over millennia, about 30 or so from memory. All the multiple sects and denominations that have arisen since have to some degree adopted and adapted the original precepts of the Catholics, and many of them hold on strongly to the original interpretations, believing that the divergence from them is the result of Satan at work. We may not like that they hang onto what we believe are outdated and offensive beliefs but they are allowed to do so.
For the time being.
I’m not a fan of religion but I am much less of a fan of any attempts to regulate it because I fundamentally mistrust the type of tools you’d have to use to do that.
-
I am really enjoying that this has brought Christianity into the open and it’s being ridiculed for the con it is.
Fighting a battle that’s hopefully destroying it’s chances of getting a new generation onboard.
Now we need some progressive country to set off a worldwide push to tax the c###•ts
-
@JC said in The Folau Factor:
He, and you don’t seem to get this, doesn’t say that he thinks those people are bad, he says that God has said categorically that they will go to Hell.
Just so I get this straight, people who sin are not "bad",but they will go to a fiery pit for eternity after they die? What happens to people who are bad? No dessert in heaven?
Just out of curiosity, could God be wrong about homosexuality being a sin?
-
@Bones said in The Folau Factor:
Hey @chimoaus got any passages from the bible that support segregation of Blacks? Or are you just conflating that with slavery? Because that would be racist... 😊
I don't think the bible has direct versus re blacks etc, just religious folk used their faith as a reason to proclaim slavery and segregation was ok. I think people can find things in the bible to make anything they do justifiable.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
He's not advocating or preaching hate against anyone. He's not telling people to discriminate or persecute.You truly believe years of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals had nothing to do with religious preaching of it being a sin?
-
RA firing back. Whatever you feel about the ethics of the corporate sponsors who support the RA they help them pay the bills and they need that money. I don't hear these free speech groups stepping up to the plate and sponsoring the RA so they can ignore the anti Folau movement. Perhaps they should start a donation page?
-
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
He's not advocating or preaching hate against anyone. He's not telling people to discriminate or persecute.You truly believe years of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals had nothing to do with religious preaching of it being a sin?
How on earth is that relevant to what I wrote? Tell me where Foolnow is preaching hate or discrimination. Where is he telling anyone to persecute others? Plenty of hate and persecution in this case and it ain't coming from him.
-
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
Don't worry, is he's message comes from a place of love
He forgot to add dentists.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
He's not advocating or preaching hate against anyone. He's not telling people to discriminate or persecute.You truly believe years of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals had nothing to do with religious preaching of it being a sin?
How on earth is that relevant to what I wrote? Tell me where Foolnow is preaching hate or discrimination. Where is he telling anyone to persecute others? Plenty of hate and persecution in this case and it ain't coming from him.
Because preaching leads to a belief, if people truly believe homosexuality is a sin, will they not possibly treat those people differently? What is the reason for him to preach this in the first place? Maybe I am looking at this wrong, Folau is a loving and caring bloke that doesn't want to see all his gay mates go to hell.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel we are many people's hell on earth. One of the pleasures of the job
-
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
He's not advocating or preaching hate against anyone. He's not telling people to discriminate or persecute.You truly believe years of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals had nothing to do with religious preaching of it being a sin?
How on earth is that relevant to what I wrote? Tell me where Foolnow is preaching hate or discrimination. Where is he telling anyone to persecute others? Plenty of hate and persecution in this case and it ain't coming from him.
Because preaching leads to a belief, if people truly believe homosexuality is a sin, will they not possibly treat those people differently? What is the reason for him to preach this in the first place? Maybe I am looking at this wrong, Folau is a loving and caring bloke that doesn't want to see all his gay mates go to hell.
But he says almost everything is a sin. Even lying. Is he calling on beer drinkers and atheists to be shunned too? Why this total focus on the gay thing when they represent a tiny percentage of the people he reckons are going to hell? You do realise that many (most?) believers think non-believers are going to hell right?
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@chimoaus said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
He's not advocating or preaching hate against anyone. He's not telling people to discriminate or persecute.You truly believe years of discrimination and hate towards homosexuals had nothing to do with religious preaching of it being a sin?
How on earth is that relevant to what I wrote? Tell me where Foolnow is preaching hate or discrimination. Where is he telling anyone to persecute others? Plenty of hate and persecution in this case and it ain't coming from him.
Because preaching leads to a belief, if people truly believe homosexuality is a sin, will they not possibly treat those people differently? What is the reason for him to preach this in the first place? Maybe I am looking at this wrong, Folau is a loving and caring bloke that doesn't want to see all his gay mates go to hell.
But he says almost everything is a sin. Even lying. Is he calling on beer drinkers and atheists to be shunned too? Why this total focus on the gay thing when they represent a tiny percentage of the people he reckons are going to hell?
Because many people rationalise those other sins as being immoral and not accepted by society and therefore probably agree with them as being sins or undesirable. Atheists don't care as they cant go to hell because it doesn't exist, not sure there are many people who identify as "Idolaters". Being a homosexual is not a choice so this is hard for people to accept, if you changed homosexual for black/brown skin you would get the same outcry.
-
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
RA firing back. Whatever you feel about the ethics of the corporate sponsors who support the RA they help them pay the bills and they need that money. I don't hear these free speech groups stepping up to the plate and sponsoring the RA so they can ignore the anti Folau movement. Perhaps they should start a donation page?
So RA is essentially blaming Qantas for threatening to pull their sponsorship. I can't stress enough how absolutely pathetic that is on the part of Qantas for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
Also, there's no way a donation page could match the money a massive corporation pumps into the game every year (assume that was a joke?).
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions