Coronavirus - Overall
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Looks like Sweden didn't have the answer to the covid19 question after all
I wouldn't rely on the NZ Herald for any answers to a complex issue like this. But if they didn't protect the vulnerable they are stupid
"Authorities in Sweden, including Tegnell, have been criticised — and have apologised — for failing to protect the country's elderly and nursing home residents"
One key always was to protect the vulnerable (and definitely not sending the sick to nursing homes likes they did in high death states in the US). Having said this was it really necessary to destroy the economy by using heavy handed nanny state tactics like many countries did
The US may be a good country to look at. Why did some (mostly Democrat) states have high death. And others didn't
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The US may be a good country to look at. Why did some (mostly Democrat) states have high death. And others didn't
Perhaps I'm giving you more credit for intelligence than you deserve, perhaps your memory is porous, or you just like posing the same question over and over again? You asked this one a while back, we all had a discussion about it. Maybe the answers given didn't fit your narrative?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Maybe the answers given didn't fit your narrative?
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@canefan I think he's suggesting no one did. And that with the benefit of hindsight/learning they will know better next time.
But quite difficult to construct much of a case that Sweden's soft lockdown has caused the country significant detriment. Time will tell.
They are also going to get to herd immunity before others, so if there were a second wave in Europe will be much better placed than almost everybody. -
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The US may be a good country to look at. Why did some (mostly Democrat) states have high death. And others didn't
Perhaps I'm giving you more credit for intelligence than you deserve, perhaps your memory is porous, or you just like posing the same question over and over again? You asked this one a while back, we all had a discussion about it. Maybe the answers given didn't fit your narrative?
Because you made a silly comment in your post. The country to look at is the US and to compare states to get a more meaningful answer (not a TSF answer)
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@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan I think he's suggesting no one did. And that with the benefit of hindsight/learning they will know better next time.
But quite difficult to construct much of a case that Sweden's soft lockdown has caused the country significant detriment. Time will tell.
They are also going to get to herd immunity before others, so if there were a second wave in Europe will be much better placed than almost everybody.If the article is to be believed
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Sweden's mortality rate per capita is the highest in Europe. The head epidemiologist admitted he would do things differently to reduce that.
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They will be excluded from a Scandinavian bubble as a result. Germany will be admitted. Assuming that they trade and interact in a big way with their neighbours, how is that a good outcome?
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@Winger Hard to get a meaningful answer when it's very difficult to get a consistent data set across the US. Both Democrats and Republicans are cooking the books to suit whatever position they want to promote, there's an almost total lack of transparency and no leadership at all. Abject failure from every perspective and we may get a better idea of everything that went wrong in time.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
If the article is to be believed
Sweden's mortality rate per capita is the highest in Europe.
The article didn't say this
"Sweden, a nation of 10.2 million people, has had 4468 deaths linked to Covid-19, which is far more than its Nordic neighbours and one of the highest death rates per capita in the world."
And its not
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
If the article is to be believed
Sweden's mortality rate per capita is the highest in Europe.
The article didn't say this
"Sweden, a nation of 10.2 million people, has had 4468 deaths linked to Covid-19, which is far more than its Nordic neighbours and one of the highest death rates per capita in the world."
And its not
Death rate is pretty meaningless across groups with different testing regimes.
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Sweden's death rate is nothing like one of the highest. Unsurprisingly it's a shit article when there are clearly more factors at play.
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@antipodean yeah according to THIS Sweden are 7th, Belgium are the worst aside from San Marino who have a population under 35k (with 42 deaths)
Italy, Spain, UK (in that order) all have worse death rates per million people than Sweden.
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@taniwharugby Thing that surprises me about Sweden is the low level of testing. The strategy does appear to have been Fuck It let's go have some herring and aquavit.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@antipodean yeah according to THIS Sweden are 7th, Belgium are the worst aside from San Marino who have a population under 35k (with 42 deaths)
Italy, Spain, UK (in that order) all have worse death rates per million people than Sweden.
Italy, Spain, UK, France and Belgium had far harder lockdowns than Sweden, but no better mortality wise.
And bear in mind a very big portion, if not majority, of Swedish cases in care homes. That seems the area where most regrets.
That said, pretty much all of the aforementioned countries have had scandalous death rates in such homes.
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A country that didn't lock down and didn't have a high death rate per head of population is Japan
Maybe its all due to how deaths are recorded though.
But this needs to be investigated openly and honestly otherwise nanny state Western leaders will do the same again (it's the nature of the beast). -
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A country that didn't lock down and didn't have a death rate per head of population is Japan
Maybe its all due to how deaths are recorded though.
But this needs to be investigated openly and honestly otherwise nanny state Western leaders will do the same again (it's the nature of the beast).Japan locked down and schools closed. What are you talking about? I work for a Japanese company and we had to send some secondees home to be with family for the lockdown
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@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A country that didn't lock down and didn't have a death rate per head of population is Japan
Maybe its all due to how deaths are recorded though.
But this needs to be investigated openly and honestly otherwise nanny state Western leaders will do the same again (it's the nature of the beast).Japan locked down and schools closed. What are you talking about? I work for a Japanese company and we had to send some secondees home to be with family for the lockdown
Not according to Corbett (who lives in the country)
The constitution doesn't allow the Govt to do much
A national emergency means ... nothing -
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Hooroo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
A country that didn't lock down and didn't have a death rate per head of population is Japan
Maybe its all due to how deaths are recorded though.
But this needs to be investigated openly and honestly otherwise nanny state Western leaders will do the same again (it's the nature of the beast).Japan locked down and schools closed. What are you talking about? I work for a Japanese company and we had to send some secondees home to be with family for the lockdown
Not according to Corbett (who lives in the country)
The constitution doesn't allow the Govt to do much
A national emergency means ... nothingThey closed all the schools, I know that. Our company had to close down factories/mills as well. Not sure you're getting the full story there.
Sounds like a lockdown to me, just a in a different way
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@Winger Jeezuz man. The very link you post has it's own link to details on the Japanese lockdown.
No they didn't lock down immediately and yes it wasn't as proscriptive as NZ's but few countries have been. You've had guys on here posting about what it's like in Japan under lockdown. Like a Kiwi Lvl 2.5 it seems.
They shut schools very early and had the advantages of a very health conscious population who naturally wear masks and are respectful of peoples space. They also have low obesity rates and a first rate health system. Plus very effective contact tracing.
They came up with a response that was effective for their population. Not one that would probably have worked elsewhere, but it wasn't a Swedish scenario.
NZ had none of the above. A not very compliant population, high rates of obesity and other risk factors and a health system that wasn't prepared for the pandemic. Our lockdown worked for us because it got everyone onside - for a short time at least (the nauseating team of 5 million) but most importantly allowed the MoH to step up contact tracing and testing to a level where now if there are further outbreaks we should be able to contain them without going back up a Level.