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@Winger - that has been debunked well and truly - from people showing up at the wrong stations, to limits on numbers of observers, to misunderstandings on what the observer role entails, where it doesn't mean they inspect and validate every ballot and how it's processed.
Why hasn't that made it further if it is such clear and compelling evidence?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Not to mention some of the cases drawing some pretty strong rebukes from the presiding judges. Remember the November case about observers?
Judge : “Are your observers in the counting room?” Trump lawyer: "There's a non-zero number of people in the room".
Yeah.
But the Observers were kicked out (or held so far away from the action). There's video evidence to support this.
The issue now is millions of people have lost faith in the election process. And both the Supreme court and Senate and Congress failed to address these issues
If the election was fair why not shine a light of all the 'false' claims of election fraud. As it is one foundation that the US stands on (free and fair elections) has been destroyed.
a video of someone being ushered away doesn't mean that the correct number of observers weren't already there. there have already been counter articles saying that those asked to leave weren't official or were additional to what was allowed
you talk of shining a light...but once again, isn't it really a case of there's nothing to shine a light on, they've said the process as documented worked more or less as it was supposed too (there are always small anomalies in any election) and those claiming fraud haven't been able to actually prove enough to actually require answers?
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Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
nope, seems an awful big hole in the heart of America that aint gonna heal anytime soon...while Trump has helped further the divide, it is pretty clear it has been there simmering for a very long time.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
Now you can argue all you want about the legitimacy of the votes cast,
But this is the main issue. One that no one has looked at. Not the courts (no one or group seems to have standing). Not the Senate or congress. Various parties have got lots of 'evidence' but no one or body with the power is willing to look at it. And this means all future election are almost meaningless. A future that many seem to support. My view is with the Great Reset (build back better etc) the Wests future will be (very) grim if this isn't addressed now. Where the elite and their puppets will go on a path (you won't own any property and will be happy) that can't be stopped through the election process.
I hear a lot that the courts haven’t looked at it. It’s patently untrue. Many courts have looked and have ruled. From what I can see they have been asked to overturn election results based on affidavits, pretty much. Affidavits aren’t evidence. All they are is sworn statements. People lie in sworn statements all the time, so while courts can use affidavits to add credence to evidence, they can’tuse them to replace evidence. They can only rule on the evidence placed before them, and it’s not the courts’ fault if the evidence presented is not up to standard.
Now maybe if the US had an investigatory or inquisitorial legal system rather than the one it actually has there might be a place for the courts to do more but that’s not going to happen, is it?
So, knowing that, what do you want? What do you and the others who keep bringing this up actually want to happen that actually can happen? Don’t say someone should look, be specific: who should look, using what powers and to what end? Do you want the election to be rerun? Do you want the Democrats to have to forfeit the election because it was unfairly fought? You know that’s never, ever going to happen, right? It can’t happen, there’s no legal precedent for it. So, leaving aside the impossible things, what do you want? Because it’s beginning to look a lot like a toddler’s tantrum.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
On the same track:
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@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
nope, seems an awful big hole in the heart of America that aint gonna heal anytime soon...while Trump has helped further the divide, it is pretty clear it has been there simmering for a very long time.
Sadly, the likes of Obama, Biden, Pelosi & co seem to be in a competition with Trump to foster as much division as possible.
When the US needs calm leadership after a year of divisive BLM protests, they get incoming President Biden mouthing off about the lack of police violence against the Trump supporters.
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
On the same track:
Thank heavens the statements bemoaning the lack of police violence from Obama, Biden and Harris are spontaneous and not planned and co-ordinated.....
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@Winger said in US Politics:
The issue now is millions of people have lost faith in the election process. And both the Supreme court and Senate and Congress failed to address these issues
I would suggest that the 81,282,903 people who voted for the winner think the outcome restored faith in the election process. And probably so do a sizeable majority of the 74m who voted for Trump. Your premise is based on a completely partisan view that you are projecting onto the entire populace of the USA.
If the election was fair why not shine a light of all the 'false' claims of election fraud. As it is one foundation that the US stands on (free and fair elections) has been destroyed.
There are 1000 courts waiting with their flashlights to shine the light. Nobody has, with any credibility, shown them something to point them at. Honestly Winger, some of the arguments that have been made are intellectually embarrassing. The observers one, for example, that you discussed above. OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified), and how that is sufficient basis to halt or overturn the entire election (incoherently argued at best). As a result the entire argument was akin to saying that because cops can’t come into your house whenever they want you’re almost certainly committing a crime in there. It’s insane!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
Peaceful protests?
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@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, that’s not helpful. You think she’s starting her run for 2024?
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@JC said in US Politics:
You know that’s never, ever going to happen, right?
Then the US (and the West) is finished as we know it. Fair election puts a check on out of control elites and their bought and paid for puppet politicians. Without this = no control and the system will just break down (with corruption. Its bad enough now).
And there is a huge amount that should be looked at. Starting with the voting machines. Is it possible (as many claim) that its easy to change votes. Supported by new machine produced voting papers
Why was all the election counting stopped in all these key states (I saw this in real time) but then it just keep on going after the observers had been kicked out. What about hidden boxes being produced (as per videos) etcWhat I would ahev liked is for the courts to do their job (they haven't) Including the Supreme court (not hiding behind lack of standing bullshit). Or for Congress or the Senate to set up a committee to publically look at all these issues. Shine a light on these issues of election fraud. And then either start the arrests. Or discredit the fraud claims.
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
Peaceful protests?
Mostly
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
Peaceful protests?
Mostly
93% didn't end in any form of viloance apparently
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@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
but that's disputed (if not outright disproven) and those claiming fraud haven't been able to prove it
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
93% didn't end in any form of viloance apparently
That might be, but the issue is Obama, Biden & co are intimating that peaceful BLM protesters were all attacked by the police while Trump supporters were almost given a free rein.
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
but that's disputed (if not outright disproven) and those claiming fraud haven't been able to prove it
Except for videos and sworn affidavits.
US Politics