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@taniwharugby said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
nope, seems an awful big hole in the heart of America that aint gonna heal anytime soon...while Trump has helped further the divide, it is pretty clear it has been there simmering for a very long time.
Sadly, the likes of Obama, Biden, Pelosi & co seem to be in a competition with Trump to foster as much division as possible.
When the US needs calm leadership after a year of divisive BLM protests, they get incoming President Biden mouthing off about the lack of police violence against the Trump supporters.
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
On the same track:
Thank heavens the statements bemoaning the lack of police violence from Obama, Biden and Harris are spontaneous and not planned and co-ordinated.....
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@Winger said in US Politics:
The issue now is millions of people have lost faith in the election process. And both the Supreme court and Senate and Congress failed to address these issues
I would suggest that the 81,282,903 people who voted for the winner think the outcome restored faith in the election process. And probably so do a sizeable majority of the 74m who voted for Trump. Your premise is based on a completely partisan view that you are projecting onto the entire populace of the USA.
If the election was fair why not shine a light of all the 'false' claims of election fraud. As it is one foundation that the US stands on (free and fair elections) has been destroyed.
There are 1000 courts waiting with their flashlights to shine the light. Nobody has, with any credibility, shown them something to point them at. Honestly Winger, some of the arguments that have been made are intellectually embarrassing. The observers one, for example, that you discussed above. OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified), and how that is sufficient basis to halt or overturn the entire election (incoherently argued at best). As a result the entire argument was akin to saying that because cops can’t come into your house whenever they want you’re almost certainly committing a crime in there. It’s insane!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
Peaceful protests?
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@Victor-Meldrew Yeah, that’s not helpful. You think she’s starting her run for 2024?
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@JC said in US Politics:
You know that’s never, ever going to happen, right?
Then the US (and the West) is finished as we know it. Fair election puts a check on out of control elites and their bought and paid for puppet politicians. Without this = no control and the system will just break down (with corruption. Its bad enough now).
And there is a huge amount that should be looked at. Starting with the voting machines. Is it possible (as many claim) that its easy to change votes. Supported by new machine produced voting papers
Why was all the election counting stopped in all these key states (I saw this in real time) but then it just keep on going after the observers had been kicked out. What about hidden boxes being produced (as per videos) etcWhat I would ahev liked is for the courts to do their job (they haven't) Including the Supreme court (not hiding behind lack of standing bullshit). Or for Congress or the Senate to set up a committee to publically look at all these issues. Shine a light on these issues of election fraud. And then either start the arrests. Or discredit the fraud claims.
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
Peaceful protests?
Mostly
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@booboo said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Doesn't look like people want to heal division and bring people together anytime soon.
In a lengthy statement released on social media, Michelle Obama said: "Seeing the gulf between the responses to yesterday's riot and this summer's peaceful protests and the larger movement for racial justice is so painful. It hurts."
Decrying the sight of "the traitorous flag of the Confederacy", she lamented the "cracked skulls and mass arrests" that she said had been seen at Black Lives Matter protests.
"Millions voted for a man so obviously willing to burn down our democracy for his own ego," she said
Peaceful protests?
Mostly
93% didn't end in any form of viloance apparently
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@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
Peaceful protests?
Seems to depend on which side you are on.
Big concern would be Antifa & BLM fruitcakes now kicking off thinking they have Biden & Harris's support.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
but that's disputed (if not outright disproven) and those claiming fraud haven't been able to prove it
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
93% didn't end in any form of viloance apparently
That might be, but the issue is Obama, Biden & co are intimating that peaceful BLM protesters were all attacked by the police while Trump supporters were almost given a free rein.
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
but that's disputed (if not outright disproven) and those claiming fraud haven't been able to prove it
Except for videos and sworn affidavits.
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@Victor-Meldrew I guess that specific example is largely based on the full riot presence outside the capital for BLM protests compared to only the normal Capital police presence for yesterday, which does sound well founded base on what ive been able to read
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
You know that’s never, ever going to happen, right?
Then the US (and the West) is finished as we know it. Fair election puts a check on out of control elites and their bought and paid for puppet politicians. Without this = no control and the system will just break down (with corruption. Its bad enough now).
And Trump is the answer to that? Trump is part of that elite and has been since the day he was born. Being a maverick doesn’t make you a man of the people, or anti-establishment. Sometimes it just means you’re selfish.
Anyway I fail to see how replacing a corporatocracy with a plutocracy is any better for the common citizen. The sight of the billionaires lining up to rule is pretty sickening.
And there is a huge amount that should be looked at. Starting with the voting machines. Is it possible (as many claim) that its easy to change votes. Supported by new machine produced voting papers
Maybe they are no good. Do you know for a fact that they won’t look at the design and security going forward? I mean state by state, because the federal government can’t have a role in that.
Why was all the election counting stopped in all these key states (I saw this in real time) but then it just keep on going after the observers had been kicked out. What about hidden boxes being produced (as per videos) etc
You are working off hearsay from people with a vested interest in creating suspicion - the losers!
What I would ahev liked is for the courts to do their job (they haven't) Including the Supreme court (not hiding behind lack of standing bullshit). Or for Congress or the Senate to set up a committee to publically look at all these issues. Shine a light on these issues of election fraud. And then either start the arrests. Or discredit the fraud claims.
Lack of standing is as fundamental to the US system as anything else you’ve mentioned. You know the USA is a federation of individual states - it’s in the name! Elections are held at state level, not federal level. Changing that changes everything, and I’m not sure the good people of the USA are ready to throw off their states quite yet.
As for discrediting the fraud claims, sure, why not? But how? Be honest now, you wouldn’t be satisfied with any outcome that legitimised the Democrats’ claim on the Presidency, would you? So why bother going to all the trouble of inquiries that will never serve their purpose? As for individual cases of voter fraud, they will be prosecuted ( well some of them, others will get away scot-free) as is always the case. The US government even tracks and reports on them, who’d have thought? https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/docs/pacei-voterfraudcases.pdf
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@Winger neither are proof, you're the first to have a go at MSM not telling the whole truth (or any of it) why are you so will into the believe a short video from someone phone, someone with something to gain. I haven't seen these videos go around EVERY person in the building counting off dems and republicans to prove what is allowed isn't being met...just the odd person being removed with no context other than what the person filming says
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@JC said in US Politics:
But how? Be honest now, you wouldn’t be satisfied with any outcome that legitimised the Democrats’ claim on the Presidency, would you
100% not correct. For all its faults the people deciding with FAIR and legal elections is by far the best system. So if Biden fairly won and he can be voted out next time fair enough
But my suspicion has been that elections in the West have been rigged for quite some time. And current members of Congress and the Senate ON BOTH SIDES are benefiting from this corrupt system. And that's why no-one wants to look at it. But if it was looked at openly and fairly I and most would accept it (truth has a way of being accepted. Lies and deceitfulness on the other hand ...)
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
OK so there is dispute around that. But judges asked lawyers to identify exactly where (can’t say), what impact that has on the outcome (huge apparently but unquantified),
Election laws requires observers to be present (surely you can see the sound reason for this requirement?). Does this mean behind a wall or so far away that they can't observe. Or does it mean able to properly onserve whats going on? And thinbk logically. If an oberver can't observe how can they know how it affected the outcome. The KEY is the election law had been ignored. If Russia did thsi we would knowingly nod out heads. But the US it seems to be Ok because orange man bad. But what about the future
Once again, you are stating categorically that there were no observers. It turns out there were. But some people appointed themselves observers and demanded to scrutinise the vote counting. Probably the same kind of people who turned up in Washington yesterday, you know the type, the ones who are cleverer than us and are just the guy to sort out the shit. And they were turned around, and they made a stink about it. That doesn’t mean the counts were not observed. It just means “Via Getty” didn’t get to put himself at the centre of it all as he wanted.
And of course the logic flaw in concluding that there is guaranteed fraud because you couldn’t personally verify the count doesn’t need elaborating.
US Politics