Australia v India
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@barbarian said in Australia v India:
if you threw BJ into this Australian team in Paine's place I would guess they actually perform worse as a team.
Why? Serious question. That is complete speculation and makes no sense to me.
BJ is a leader in his own right and stands up big time when required.
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@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
Short memories around the place, Tim Paine was MoTM just two tests ago! Has the second highest batting average of any Aussie keeper (behind Gilchrist), and despite a tough few hours is still as good a gloveman as we have.
Banter was a bit much late, but they were pushing to win a crucial test, been in the field all day, and it was more annoying than offensive. Happy to give him the benefit of the doubt given his track record so far.
No hundreds and the modern game demands a keeper with an average of close to 40 these days.
Well, ok we’re pretty spoilt with BJ to be fair, whoever succeeds him has massive shoes to fill.
But fuck Tim Paine, not remotely in that class.
No, but once again it's not like we've got keepers averaging 40 floating around. The cupboard is bare.
I'm a big Paine fan. What he's done with this team since Sandpapergate is truly remarkable, in terms of reputation and on-field performance. He was never going to be an all-time player, but he was the man for his time.
He is at the bottom of the pantheon of Australian skippers, but from where he was just a few years ago the fact that he is actually in that pantheon is an enormous achievement.
This test series has hurt that reputation though.
Has it? How? One exchange with Ashwin yesterday, which was pretty tame by historical standards. And a dropped catch, but not exactly a match-defining one. Yes it certainly didn't help him, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it will linger that long in the memory.
and being fined for dissent towards the umpire.
And his carry on after being given out DRS earlier in the series
Neither has really resonated here. In the first instance, he didn't exactly abuse the umpire, what he said was fairly benign IMO. And I think most people sympathised with his 'carry on', which again was pretty light. It wasn't like he stood at the crease and refused to leave. In both instances he was just frustrated at what a lot of people thought were questionable DRS calls.
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@Snowy said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
if you threw BJ into this Australian team in Paine's place I would guess they actually perform worse as a team.
Why? Serious question. That is complete speculation and makes no sense to me.
BJ is a leader in his own right and stands up big time when required.
Because they get nervous when one of the boys doesn't want to act like a carnt?
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@Snowy said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
if you threw BJ into this Australian team in Paine's place I would guess they actually perform worse as a team.
Why? Serious question. That is complete speculation and makes no sense to me.
BJ is a leader in his own right and stands up big time when required.
Well the whole concept of subbing in BJ for Paine is speculative, so we should surely indulge ourselves in that element.
I think Paine's contribution to this team is a lot more than numbers on the scorecard. From watching the Amazon doco, he is the clearly the central figure in this team. His mentoring of younger players is particularly noticeable.
So if you were to remove him in place of Watling, while you'd get more runs from your keeper you would lose all of those other unmeasurable elements that Paine brings. Which is not a stab at all at Watling, more a comment on Paine.
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@barbarian said in Australia v India:
you would lose all of those other unmeasurable elements that Paine brings.
Would you?
BJ seems to do that for our team without being a dickhead.
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@Snowy said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
you would lose all of those other unmeasurable elements that Paine brings.
Would you?
I don't fucking know, it's a hypothetical for Christ's sake.
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@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@Snowy said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
you would lose all of those other unmeasurable elements that Paine brings.
Would you?
I don't fucking know, it's a hypothetical for Christ's sake.
Then why did you say it?
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@Snowy said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@Snowy said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
you would lose all of those other unmeasurable elements that Paine brings.
Would you?
I don't fucking know, it's a hypothetical for Christ's sake.
Then why did you say it?
Because it's just a guess, a comment, a prediction, a way to pass the time on this godforsaken hellhole before we all die.
I don't know that, I don't know any of all this. It's just empty oxygen, like the vast, vast majority of my and everyone else's posts on this site.
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@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@KiwiMurph said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@barbarian said in Australia v India:
Short memories around the place, Tim Paine was MoTM just two tests ago! Has the second highest batting average of any Aussie keeper (behind Gilchrist), and despite a tough few hours is still as good a gloveman as we have.
Banter was a bit much late, but they were pushing to win a crucial test, been in the field all day, and it was more annoying than offensive. Happy to give him the benefit of the doubt given his track record so far.
No hundreds and the modern game demands a keeper with an average of close to 40 these days.
Well, ok we’re pretty spoilt with BJ to be fair, whoever succeeds him has massive shoes to fill.
But fuck Tim Paine, not remotely in that class.
No, but once again it's not like we've got keepers averaging 40 floating around. The cupboard is bare.
I'm a big Paine fan. What he's done with this team since Sandpapergate is truly remarkable, in terms of reputation and on-field performance. He was never going to be an all-time player, but he was the man for his time.
He is at the bottom of the pantheon of Australian skippers, but from where he was just a few years ago the fact that he is actually in that pantheon is an enormous achievement.
This test series has hurt that reputation though.
Has it? How? One exchange with Ashwin yesterday, which was pretty tame by historical standards. And a dropped catch, but not exactly a match-defining one. Yes it certainly didn't help him, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it will linger that long in the memory.
and being fined for dissent towards the umpire.
And his carry on after being given out DRS earlier in the series
Neither has really resonated here. In the first instance, he didn't exactly abuse the umpire, what he said was fairly benign IMO. And I think most people sympathised with his 'carry on', which again was pretty light. It wasn't like he stood at the crease and refused to leave. In both instances he was just frustrated at what a lot of people thought were questionable DRS calls.
Tim Paine is a topic everywhere in the news this morning about his behaviour. Given his 'nice guy' reputation (was supposedly a key reason he got the captain's role in the first place) - i'd say this test series has hurt that reputation.
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@KiwiMurph These are his comments this morning, interesting IMO:
“I want to apologise for the way I went about things yesterday. I’m someone who prides themselves on the way I lead this team and yesterday was a poor reflection of the team,” Paine said.
“I let the pressure of the game get to me. It affected my mood and my performance.
“I’ve had a really poor game as a leader … yesterday I fell short of my expectations and our team’s standards. I’m human. I want to apologise for the mistakes I made yesterday.
“It’s certainly not a reflection of the way I want to lead this team. We’ve set high standards over the last few months and … I’m bitterly disappointed.
“My mood throughout the whole Test match was a bit off. The way I spoke to the umpires was unacceptable.
“I’ve got to cop that on the chin. It’s certainly not a reflection of how I want to do it going forward.
“I fell short of my own standards and expectations. I’m bitterly disappointed with that.”
“I ended up looking a fool, didn’t I? Opened my mouth and dropped a catch (after sledging Ashwin).”
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Paine for me is a cultural touchstone with Langer in this team. The two of them landed in the job together and were a key part of turning that around. Certainly Langer loves the bloke.
It is clear that, while Watling is a good player for NZ, it doesn't necessarily mean he'd be the right fit for Australia.
I don't necessarily buy into a team being better than the sum of its parts, but having the right balance is important.
Hypothetically, if you put Watling in as keeper, who is the captain? What does that do to the balance and organisation of the team? Could BJ perform in the same way if he doesn't have Taylor, Boult, Williamson etc. around him?
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@canefan said in Australia v India:
@NTA I would agree that Paine was integral to the culture change that was needed after sandpapergate. Clearly he delivers some intangibles alongside his statistical contributions
Eight 50s and zero tons just in case anyone needed reminding.
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@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@canefan said in Australia v India:
@NTA I would agree that Paine was integral to the culture change that was needed after sandpapergate. Clearly he delivers some intangibles alongside his statistical contributions
Eight 50s and zero tons just in case anyone needed reminding.
Not a bad captain, in case anyone needs reminding:
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@NTA said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@canefan said in Australia v India:
@NTA I would agree that Paine was integral to the culture change that was needed after sandpapergate. Clearly he delivers some intangibles alongside his statistical contributions
Eight 50s and zero tons just in case anyone needed reminding.
Not a bad captain, in case anyone needs reminding:
Bad prep, everyone knows that.
Watling > Paine
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@NTA said in Australia v India:
@MN5 said in Australia v India:
@canefan said in Australia v India:
@NTA I would agree that Paine was integral to the culture change that was needed after sandpapergate. Clearly he delivers some intangibles alongside his statistical contributions
Eight 50s and zero tons just in case anyone needed reminding.
Not a bad captain, in case anyone needs reminding:
You know psychological abuse is still abuse right?
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