Freedom campers

Virgil

You have to be fucken dreaming if you think these Freedom campers are contributing more or even equal to the the average Visitor in NZ. The same visitor that shells out $200 + per night to stay at hotels etc. That comes over with $1000's of disposable income to blow on Merino slippers.
 
Those turds that park up for free, do their washing, shit and brush their teeth in our streams and on our roads are probably costing more money (Clean up costs etc)
 
If Freedom Campers were banned from entering our country tomorrow ill wager one of my nuts the total Tourism income for the next 12 months wouldnt even fucken drop a single %.
 
The sooner they fuck off and Wicked Campers along with them (2 problems, one fix) the better.

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="567800" data-time="1459128244">
I would say the Credit card data would be easy for them to get information on*, it is differentiating the freedom campers vs the normal tourists that is more difficult IMO. 
Mastercard/Visa would be able to show which credit cards that originated in the UK, and spent in NZ, without any names or details other than this card spent $6000 in 6 weeks, I doubt Visa/Mastercard are breaching any privacy by providing that data??</blockquote>
 
Easier than it sounds - if normal tourists purchase accommodation, then freedom campers are the foreign credit cards with no or minimal accommodation purchases. It's not perfect, but it's a reasonable proxy. Paymark can also provide the info, and as long as they scrub the identity information, it's fine (there are two exemptions to the Privacy Act that apply - releasing info for statistical and research purposes, and, arguably, protection of public revenue). 
Also, to get into NZ, the tourists have to show evidence of $1000 per month ($6000 for Brits, $3000 for the rest) plus a return ticket at the border, so they have to have funds available, even if they don't necessarily spend it on accommodation.

Donsteppa

So people who stay with family in NZ would potentially be classed as freedom campers (for that financial analysis)...? 
Cruise ship passengers too potentially - under that rough proxy.

No Quarter

The cruise ship tourists are big spenders. I am sure many of the high end shops on Queen St would not survive without them.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="567806" data-time="1459132035">
<div>
You have to be fucken dreaming if you think these Freedom campers are contributing more or even equal to the the average Visitor in NZ. The same visitor that shells out $200 + per night to stay at hotels etc. That comes over with $1000's of disposable income to blow on Merino slippers.
 
Those turds that park up for free, do their washing, shit and brush their teeth in our streams and on our roads are probably costing more money (Clean up costs etc)
 
If Freedom Campers were banned from entering our country tomorrow ill wager one of my nuts the total Tourism income for the next 12 months wouldnt even fucken drop a single %.
 
The sooner they fuck off and Wicked Campers along with them (2 problems, one fix) the better.
</div>
</blockquote>
Likely because their actual numbers are really low - as I mentioned from the Radiolive report above.

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="567930" data-time="1459191214">
Also, to get into NZ, the tourists have to show evidence of $1000 per month ($6000 for Brits, $3000 for the rest) plus a return ticket at the border, so they have to have funds available, even if they don't necessarily spend it on accommodation.</blockquote>
 
I never knew this and haven't seen it in action. The Mrs hasn't been asked for anything other than a passport and address.

Crucial

Some folk here pretty keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Young backpacker type tourists not only sustain some of the more out of the way towns in NZ (which has all round benefits in many ways for all of us) but they are the prime candidates for spreading the tourist word through social media, word of mouth and will most likely return many years later with much more cash.
 
To make their trip work and to spread their $ further (NZ is pretty quick to try and fleece tourists every which way) they will sometimes pull up for the night in their semi self contained vehicles to sleep. The majority take a dump at the nearest publicly available toilet and don't leave rubbish behind.
 
Yes there are obviously some bad eggs just taking advantage and not caring at all. How about looking for ways to clamp down on them rather than lump everyone in together?

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="568209" data-time="1459254619"> 
I never knew this and haven't seen it in action. The Mrs hasn't been asked for anything other than a passport and address.</blockquote>
 
It only applies to people travelling to NZ on the visa waiver programme, and normally gets checked prior to boarding rather than checking at this end. People who apply for visas prior to travel show it with their application, so don't have to show it again when travelling. It doesn't apply to citizens or residents, which include Aussie citizens and returning residents. 
Best way to check the spending would be to generate a profile based on typical features (spending in multiple regions with no accommodation or internal flights would be a likely profile), and then look for/at spending data that matches the profile. Like I said, not perfect, but a reasonable proxy.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568233" data-time="1459279538">
<div>
Some folk here pretty keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Young backpacker type tourists not only sustain some of the more out of the way towns in NZ (which has all round benefits in many ways for all of us) but they are the prime candidates for spreading the tourist word through social media, word of mouth and will most likely return many years later with much more cash.
 
To make their trip work and to spread their $ further (NZ is pretty quick to try and fleece tourists every which way) they will sometimes pull up for the night in their semi self contained vehicles to sleep. The majority take a dump at the nearest publicly available toilet and don't leave rubbish behind.
 
Yes there are obviously some bad eggs just taking advantage and not caring at all. How about looking for ways to clamp down on them rather than lump everyone in together?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Who was equating all "young backpacker tourist types" as freedom campers?
 
Plenty of backpackers locally, but only a small quantity of "ferals"...
 
About the only thing lumping everyone in together is Godder's proxy* :)
 
* yes, acknowledging how difficult these things are..

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="568426" data-time="1459309521">Who was equating all "young backpacker tourist types" as freedom campers? 
 
Plenty of backpackers locally, but only a small quantity of "ferals"... 
 
About the only thing lumping everyone in together is Godder's proxy* :) 
 * yes, acknowledging how difficult these things are.. </blockquote>
 
Getting the word out on lonely planet etc that if a local council catches you treating our country like a giant toilet they are going to fine you and when you try and leave customs aren't going to let you leave until you've paid would probably sort the behaviour out pretty quickly .

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="568426" data-time="1459309521">Who was equating all "young backpacker tourist types" as freedom campers? 
Plenty of backpackers locally, but only a small quantity of "ferals"... 
About the only thing lumping everyone in together is Godder's proxy* :) * yes, acknowledging how difficult these things are.. </blockquote>
 
But you are equating all freedom campers as ferals. My guess is that it is about 10% that are the problem.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568439" data-time="1459317442">But you are equating all freedom campers as ferals. My guess is that it is about 10% that are the problem.</blockquote>
 
The vast majority of backpacker 'types' I see around here are in backpacker hostels or in caravan parks/camping grounds. 
Of the small number who are parked up at the beach for free, I...

Would be amazed if they were somehow worth more than the average tourist/backpacker
Would not be surprised if there are a few Kiwis in the mix
Couldn't care less what the "feral" to "freedom camper" ratio is amongst them... I struggle to see much value in it, no matter how convoluted a credit card spend formula we create. 
But, if there's no mess, then no fuss. 
If there is mess, then moving it along won't be the end of the world, nor will it "throw the baby out with the bath water" or somehow harm the high value end of the tourism sector.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="568444" data-time="1459318506">
<div>
The vast majority of backpacker 'types' I see around here are in backpacker hostels or in caravan parks/camping grounds. 
Of the small number who are parked up at the beach for free, I...

Would be amazed if they were somehow worth more than the average tourist/backpacker
Would not be surprised if there are a few Kiwis in the mix
Couldn't care less what the "feral" to "freedom camper" ratio is amongst them... I struggle to see much value in it, no matter how convoluted a credit card spend formula we create. 
But, if there's no mess, then no fuss. 
If there is mess, then moving it along won't be the end of the world, nor will it "throw the baby out with the bath water" or somehow harm the high value end of the tourism sector.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
This. 
 
Edit, yet another story today. They don't even use the toilets that are provided <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/78339597/Locals-move-on-freedom-campers-in-South-Taranaki'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/78339597/Locals-move-on-freedom-campers-in-South-Taranaki</a>

Godder

Ultimately, we want their money, and we want the total spend, not the daily spend. The numbers say freedom campers stay substantially longer then average, so although their daily spend isn't that high, they drop the most money in NZ before they leave.

jegga

Ultimately we want big spending tourists , parasites whos daily spend is minimal aren't the ones we should targeting . People who stay in hotels , eat at restaurants and drop loads of cash on tourist orientated crap are the ones we want. Freedom campers are at the very lowest rung on the ladder and we shouldn't be encouraging them at all.

taniwharugby

Maybe we need new slogans on those wicked campers: we want your money not your shit 
Take only memories, don't leave your shit 
Keep calm, don't lose your shit

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="568520" data-time="1459360257">
<div>
Maybe we need new slogans on those wicked campers: we want your money not your shit 
Take only memories, don't leave your shit 
Keep calm, don't lose your shit
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Or 
 
This vehicle and its occupants are legally considered paintball targets in this country.
Thank you for your cooperation.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="568486" data-time="1459342395">
Ultimately, we want their money, and we want the total spend, not the daily spend. The numbers say freedom campers stay substantially longer then average, so although their daily spend isn't that high, they drop the most money in NZ before they leave.</blockquote>
An economist for wicked campers, perhaps? 
Daily spend is very important if you attract more of the higher spending short stayers... Volume and value together matters, not only whether they stay for a long time in public car parks. 
Also with value it's the private sector developing and paying for accomodation solutions - and benefiting from it. Not relying on Councils to develop all sorts of free facilities for people spending $40 - $50 per day over several months because somehow they're more important to attract because we only value total spend per individual tourist. 
And that's without remembering Sir Paul Callaghan's comments on the importance we (still) place on the sector: <a class="bbc_url" href="

">

</a>

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="568519" data-time="1459359720">
<div>
Ultimately we want big spending tourists , parasites whos daily spend is minimal aren't the ones we should targeting . People who stay in hotels , eat at restaurants and drop loads of cash on tourist orientated crap are the ones we want. Freedom campers are at the very lowest rung on the ladder and we shouldn't be encouraging them at all.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
You are either being deliberately narrow minded in order to troll or really are as stupid as the leftards you so despise.
 
Do you really think that all freedom campers are of the feral freeloading type? Why ban the ability to 'free camp' entirely because of the bad ones? Shall we ban all rental cars for tourists as well due to the few that cause accidents?
 
OK, let's go down your path and actively discourage this group entirely and only take in tourists that have hotel bookings and declare that they will only buy their food at restaurants. Now let's watch small town NZ dry up even more so that when we want to travel in our own country you can barely find a functioning dairy let alone maybe a small cafe or accommodation or the small attractions that make places enjoyable. The tourist industry will consist of overseas owned hotels and restaurant chains in Auckland and Queenstown with some bus tours to show them the sights out of town. Just like the 1980s.
All of those small town folk that are scratching a living with little tourist ventures and shops either self employed or working for these ventures can go back on the dole and add to the leftard pool.
 
The type of tourists you want don't spread money around the country. they fly in and out and get directed as to where to spend. If you don't believe that general-ism then why believe the one you do about campers?
 
Have you ever sat in a campsite, having a beer and chatting to these campers asking them about how they spend their time and money while in NZ?Asking them if the way they do it is common among others they meet along the way? What they think of the ones that take advantage? I don't think you'd be that surprised with what they have to say, it just wouldn't fit your 'permanently outraged' view on people that don't fit your ideal.
 
For starters many of those that 'freecamp' don't do it every night. They will also stay in commercial campgrounds, DoC camps, backpackers and motels. They freecamp when it suits their needs and stretches their budgets so they can spend on attractions. Sometimes it is a case of arriving somewhere very late and leaving early to fit more in, or because they have just spent a few days somewhere expensive. They also dislike the ferals whose actions make it harder for them and will often tell them so. The facebook pages and apps they use to find where to camp actively promote responsible camping.
 
I totally agree that there is no excuse whatsoever for those that abuse the invitation and leave a mess behind them. They are certainly the ones that we don't want and also the ones that probably spend sweet FA as they freeload their way around. But don't lump the others in with them. This style of travel is an important part of the overall tourist scene. They may not spend as much in total as some others but the distribution of their $ is most likely different and sustains areas of the industry that the guided tours etc don't.
The long game view is also that these independent 'cheap' travellers return years later with fuller pockets to relive their experiences.
 
I am grateful that I had the ability to 'freecamp' at times in Scotland, France and Australia (where you can camp pretty much where you like). All in areas that I simply would not have got to if I couldn't do it this way. I'm sure the shopkeepers at Cameron Corner, St Cirq lapopie and Inveroran were happy to accept the small amounts I spent there and in turn when I go back I am likely to stay in more luxurious and expensive accommodation even if it is just a B&B.
 
Yes, finding ways to eliminate the feral types is difficult but stopping everyone to stop a few is not the way to go.

Donsteppa

I think half the problem with this thread is all the different things we have in mind around "backpackers", "high end tourists", "freedom campers" and "ferals/messy buggers".
 
I'm still going with "no mess then no fuss", in which case go for your life.
 
Getting into economic impact assessments is a whole other kettle of fish...

The Silver Fern

Freedom campers